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Artur

Virginity

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IgotWood, I am a Christian and as a Christian I believe the law should be applied to the both females and males. Also, faithfullness of the women is not the only reason why men should marry virgins. Armenians use the word clean (makur) in reference to the word virginity. So girl should be clean, which means not just a physical condition but also a spiritual one. Woman after she marries becomes a mother, and as a mother she should be pure in the eyes of the children and her husband.

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does it matter if its cultural or religious ? at least it doesnt for me ...
I believe it matters...What do you value more?  Your culture or your religion?It'd be great if they were one and the same, but in most cases they are not.  The publication that I posted is a prime example of this point...again, if that survey is right, then Armenian men think it's ok for males to sleep around but not ok for girls to sleep around.This is the cultural attitude...cultural value...The bible, and christians, believe neither men nor women should engage in premarital sex.  This is a religious value...You have indicated that you don't care if males sleep around before marriage.  So you have chosen to embrace Armenian cultural values.  Not christian religious values.Webmaster believes both males and females should be celibate.  He has chosen to embrace christian religious values.Not sure which you embrace more?  Here's the test:Hypothetical scenario...two men have proposed to you.  You love them both equally, and you know they both love you.  Guy 'A' is an armenian but he is not very dedicated christian.  Guy 'B' is not armenian but is a devout christian.  Who do you choose?If I put myself in the scenario, I'd choose the christian girl, without hesitation!  There's no contest between culture and religion in my mind.

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IgotWood, I am a Christian and as a Christian I believe the law should be applied to the both females and males. Also, faithfullness of the women is not the only reason why men should marry virgins. Armenians use the word clean (makur) in reference to the word virginity. So girl should be clean, which means not just a physical condition but also a spiritual one. Woman after she marries becomes a mother, and as a mother she should be pure in the eyes of the children and her husband.
Bless you soul!  I think this is like the first post on these forums that I completely understand!Well, almost...I still think a non-virgin girl can be spiritually clean and shouldn't necessarily be valued less than a virgin girl.  If Jesus can forgive prostitutes and adulterers...if prostitutes and adulters are good enough for the kingdom of heaven...then they must be good enough for me.Well...I mean, if the girl was a devout christian and a virgin, great.  But given  the choice between a less than devout girl who somehow happened to be a virgin and a devout christian that made a mistake in the past....I'd choose the devout christian.

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IgotWood our culture, traditions, morals etc. are the reflections of our religion. So it is a bit wrong to devide our culture and religion into two different categories.My friend i totally understand you. And I myself totally agree with you that a girl that realises that she made a mistake in the past and is now clean in her mind, as a God is merciful and forgivable, can be valued high. No doudt!And I understand the problem of finding a clean girl in America as nowadays people can't destingwish between good and bad and immoral things are regarded normal... it is a problem.  :bored:Blessing be upon your family members and all your friends!

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IgotWood our culture, traditions, morals etc. are the reflections of our religion. So it is a bit wrong to devide our culture and religion into two different categories.
I respectfully disagree...There clearly seems to be a conflict between armenian national culture and armenia's dominant religion (christianity) in at least one aspect of life...sex.If there were no conflict, then the armenian men surveyed in that study would not have overwhelmingly thought it was ok for men to have premarital sex.

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Well, what I can say is that in some way you are right. Being a destiny of the atheist past Armenian attitudes are going in the way that is different from the christian. Some of the men regard premarital sex as normal and not just some but most regard it normal. And it might be one of the only aspects that have been changed through the time. But from this year on kids will be learning Christianity in the schools, so they will know that the law is equal for both men and women as in the past our traditions did forbid both genders to have "relations" before marriage. From the God's will know kids have a chance to learn these things in schools. Note, that for 80 years the religious studies weren't allowed in schools, however my nation's mentality is still a reflaction of the christian values.  ;-) God bless you!

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i am confused now...  :notify: why do u care so much about Armenians' verginity ? first i thought u just wanted to understand our culture and traditions .. but now it seems like u r trying to prove to us that all our truditions suck .. and i kinda dont like that AT ALL  :sneaky2:
What do you value more?  Your culture or your religion?
i value my religoin more but that not the case in this issue .. and especially its not an issue in such a question as "pure" Armenian guys .. i asked u before and u never answered me .. whould it be possible for u to be "pure " untill u get married ? and the answer is simply NO ..  the same applyes to Armenian guys .. why would we want them to stay "pure" they are men and as all men they want to have sex .. and i dont think its been ever forbiden for Armenian man to have sex before marrige ..
So you have chosen to embrace Armenian cultural values.  Not christian religious values.
i would never choose to embarace any of these values .. Yes it doesnt matter for me if my future husband will be "pure" or not .. as long as he would be respectfull and faithfull  ,,  :sarcasm:
Hypothetical scenario...two men have proposed to you.  You love them both equally, and you know they both love you.  Guy 'A' is an armenian but he is not very dedicated christian.  Guy 'B' is not armenian but is a devout christian.  Who do you choose
first of all i will never be able and will not love two guys equally..  :sarcasm:  its not about marrying Armenian guy and its of course not about marrying a good christian .. how do u know may be i am not dedicated chrisitan too .. to me verginity is about RESPECT .. if a girl does not respect herself than thats her choice .. but to me verginity is being "clean" and that all is about (but i am talking about myself only now) ..   :sarcasm:  :sneaky2:

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but now it seems like u r trying to prove to us that all our truditions suck .. and i kinda dont like that AT ALL
Not at all!  No no no!!!  The whole time, I've just been trying to figure armenians out!  I'm trying to make sense out of that published report versus what I've heard armenians say.  What's the truth?  The publication or the hearsay?  In trying to figure that out, by posting here, I percieved what I thought to be a conflict between possible cultural and religious values.  Now I'm trying to make sense of that.  By no means am I attacking anyone or any race!!!! :o
why would we want them to stay "pure" they are men and as all men they want to have sex
Why would you make such broad generalization about men?  Women aren't that different from men.  Some men crave sex, just as some women crave sex.  Some men have more self control, just as some women have more self control.  Maybe you've been around the wrong type of guys...or your opinion of men has been shaped largely by how popular culture depicts men.And I ask again...why are armenian women so willing to let guys have their way, when guys expect so much more of women?  I still don't get it...
first of all i will never be able and will not love two guys equally...
Of course not...that's why I said it was a hypothetical situation! :)
its not about marrying Armenian guy and its of course not about marrying a good christian .. how do u know may be i am not dedicated chrisitan too ..
This is completely my fault!!  I did not mean to make such a blanket assumption!!  I assumed that armenians considered themselves good christians and identified with christianity!!  Obviously I was wrong!!! :blush: Um...since you're not christian...you can just ignore my whole post!  Sorry...again, I shouldn't have assumed all armenians identified with christianity... :blush:
to me verginity is about RESPECT .. if a girl does not respect herself than thats her choice .. but to me verginity is being "clean" and that all is about (but i am talking about myself only now)
Again, sorry.  I was putting this in the context of christians...to christians virginity is about obeying the Lord.But even in your non-religious context, if it is about respect and being clean...wouldn't a girl want a clean guy who respects himself?Whew!!!  Am I making enemies here or what? :laugh: Man o man...guys, girls, christians, non-christians, cats, dogs...they all hate me!  Oh well! :blush:But I just learned something...armenian does not equal christian!! :)Er wait, but Webmasters post seems to indicate that you cannot separate armenians from religion...Nevermind, I've learned nothing... :(

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looooooooool man u r crazy i am christian .. i just said "what if i am not " it doesnt meen that i am not a christian .. and
Am I making enemies here or what?
no u r not making any enemies (or at least i am not one of them ) .. and if u want to learn smthn dont be contraversial .. listen to what ARMENIAN people are telling u ,., and stop thinking as "avarage american " (by no means i want to offend u ) ;-) ..uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i dont have clue how to explain it to u .. i give up  ;-)  :confused:

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I assumed that armenians considered themselves good christians and identified with christianity!!
It is up to God to judge who is a good Christian and who is not. We can't consider ourselves good christians, your assumption was wrong. ;-)

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It is up to God to judge who is a good Christian and who is not. We can't consider ourselves good christians, your assumption was wrong. ;-)
*gasp*You are wise, o Webmaster!!! :) So true, so true...

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oops jan don't worry about it... ;-)By the way IgotWood, again about your stats, have you ever thought of the way that the survey was counducted? I can't imagine how they did it. Did they walk around yerevan and ask girls wether they are virgins or not or what? lool :D If you ask a girl such thing, there is a veeeeery high probability of getting a slap. :D So I am pretty sure it is nothing but just an opinion of a person who published the stats. ;-)

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oops jan don't worry about it...
its not that easy ..  ;-)  :blush:
If you ask a girl such thing, there is a veeeeery high probability of getting a slap
ooooooohhhhhhhhh yeahhhhhhhhh !  :laugh:  :bigsmile:  :p

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