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Spezzatura

Араба Бирмилят до Икидовлята не доехалa

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Я тоже случайно посмотрел перед сном и тепер я тоже спать не могу :)

Такое добро пропадает, Asatryan джан, как ты можешь спокойно спать?

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Байц и՜нч демq а!

Нет, всё-таки я думаю, что мой Ильхам победит апшеронского Ильхама по конкурсу «Выражение лица» и по конкурсу «Симпатичность».

Карс, ждемс голосовалки! :lol:

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По названию фотки, я бы непременно первое место взял бы. А фото я назвал: Морда кирпича просит !!!

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Карс, ждемс голосовалки! :lol:

Без сарказма! :angry:

Извините за опоздание, уважаемый Ghazaryan. Завтра устроим голосовалку.

У нас уже за полночь, хорошей фотографии Ильхама не получится. Со вспышкой - не то. Надо днем, при естественном освещении, и в фас. Выражение лица будет впечатлительнее.

Но зато у нас есть фото Ильхама (правда не совсем в фас), где его нежно гладит наша Bagirka: http://forum.hayastan.com/index.php?showto...st&p=871027

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Без сарказма! :angry:

Извините за опоздание, уважаемый Ghazaryan. Завтра устроим голосовалку.

У нас уже за полночь, хорошей фотографии Ильхама не получится. Со вспышкой - не то. Надо днем, при естественном освещении, и в фас. Выражение лица будет впечатлительнее.

Но зато у нас есть фото Ильхама (правда не совсем в фас), где его нежно гладит наша Bagirka: http://forum.hayastan.com/index.php?showto...st&p=871027

:( Менк ардэн ереви чаперы анцеленк ереханер!Ой незнаю даже,хотя если почитать на и форумах мер караварутян масин то мы даже пионеры по сравнению с наидреннейщими из оттолерантеных!

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У кого-нибудь есть инфа насчет того что творится на границе ?

Турки пишут что в придверии открытия наводится марафет и что самолету с тофиками не разрешили вылетить из Гейдарабада в Карс когда выяснилось что те едут протестовать.

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Ihsan Dagi

Turkey between Armenia and Azerbaijan

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Is Turkey going to establish diplomatic representation with Armenia and open its border with this neighboring country? Since the Turkish president's attendance at a soccer match between the two countries' national teams in Yerevan last year, a process of rapprochement has been on the table.

The need for stability in the Caucasus and the increasing assertiveness of Russia in the region, as well as the imperative for addressing historical animosity between the peoples of the two countries, requires a properly working relationship between Turkey and Armenia.

This is the rational choice. But governments do not act only on rationality. They are sentimental, like individuals. Yet the sentimentality of the Turks and the Armenians has not brought anything but enmity between these two peoples and their imprisonment in history. Now the two neighboring countries are being tested: They will either move along a path toward removing the burden of the past, seeing many opportunities along the way, or remain hostage to history.

Anyhow, it is not civilized to be neighbors and keep the borders closed and not establish diplomatic contacts.

It is a question of whether they will surrender to nationalism or not. We know that the Armenian issue in Turkey and the Turkish question among the Armenians fan nationalism. Some groups on both sides have obvious interests in keep this issue bleeding so that nationalism can remain alive.

Visionary politicians can change history. The pain and suffering of the past is real. But how long can we live in the past? Politicians should, of course, be respectful to the past generations that suffered, but they also have responsibilities for living people and for future generations.

We are at a crossroads. There are now some positive signs that the dialogue between Turkey and Armenia may result in some concrete steps. Yet it appears that Azerbaijan is unhappy with the diplomatic contacts between Turkey and Armenia. Some in Azerbaijan are even furious, regarding such a rapprochement as a betrayal. There is no doubt that the Armenians should withdraw from the occupied Azerbaijani territories. Neither international law nor universal ethics allow for the annexation of territory by force. The Armenians should be persuaded or forced to withdraw from Azeri territories.

Armenia's international and regional standing will be enhanced with a solution to the Nagorno-Karabakh issue. Otherwise, it will be isolated in the region with support coming only from Russia. But Armenia's reliance or even dependence on Russia seriously hamper its standing in its relations with the West. If the tension between Russia and Europe or the US increases, Armenia will be pushed further into the Russian orbit. So in order to reduce its dependence on Russia and be a free agent in global politics, Armenia should resolve the Nagorno-Karabakh issue.

The Azerbaijanis should also be prepared for a negotiated settlement. The country cannot surrender to those who use the Nagorno-Karabakh issue to mobilize the masses and garner political legitimacy and power. It is not hard to see that this issue functions in Azerbaijan as the Cyprus issue functions in Turkey: fanning nationalism and justifying authoritarian tendencies and practices by pointing out a national "enemy" or cause.

This is not the time to play such a simple and silly game.

Concerning the role Turkey plays in the Nagorno-Karabakh issue, Azerbaijanis should ask this question: Has Turkey's boycott of Armenia brought about a solution? It may be time to come up with some new initiatives to resolve the territorial dispute between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Stability and peace in the southern Caucasus require a solution to this problem. No party involved can benefit from disturbances in the region.

Azerbaijan's strong reaction to Turkey is not reasonable at all. It is likely to push Azerbaijan toward Russia, the primary supporter of Armenia's occupation of Nagorno-Karabakh. Can the Azerbaijani leadership explain this to its people: turning their back on Turkey and embracing Russia, the ally of Armenia, to solve the Nagorno-Karabakh question?

Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev has threatened to cut off natural gas sales to Turkey. It has not been mentioned yet, but he can also close the Baku-Ceyhan-Tbilisi pipeline. These would certainly harm Turkey, but they would result in Azerbaijan's dependence on Russia. They should understand that Turkey is their only outlet for reaching out to the world beyond Russia.

It is time to bury historical animosities in the southern Caucasus.

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Neither international law nor universal ethics allow for the annexation of territory by force.

Кто бы говорил. Как были ничтожествами так ими и остались.

The Armenians should be persuaded or forced to withdraw from Azeri territories.

Только через наши трупы. :fedayi:

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Кто бы говорил. Как были ничтожествами так ими и остались.

Только через наши трупы. :fedayi:

Нет уж ... Лучше - через их трупы ... :cool:

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Азербайджанская партия "Муасир Мусават" провела акцию перед посольством Турции в Баку

АЗЕРБАЙДЖАН Несанкционированную властями акцию провела перед посольством Турции в Баку азербайджанская партия «Муасир Мусават» («Современный Мусават»), протестуя против возможного открытия турецко-армянской границы. Активисты партии численностью около 20 человек, выкрикивая лозунг «Карабах!», подошли к территории посольства Турции в Баку с транспарантами – «Армяне наши общие враги!». Представители участников пикета зачитали резолюцию акции, в которой отмечается недопустимость открытия турецко-армянской границы на сегодняшний день. В документе также подчеркивается, что Турция не должна открыть госграницы с соседней Арменией без отказа последней от территориальных притязаний к Турции, освобождения оккупированных территорий Азербайджана, также отказа от выдвижения требований по признанию геноцида армян.

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Azeri's goal for centuries was to finally become part of "turkish sea", because majority of people/government in Az. are turks, who occupied Az. teritories and conquered Lezgins, Talishes, and other nations living there. Today these nations are completely suppressed and almost completely assimilated by turks majority. Azeri turks of course want to restart wars, and send more Talishes and Lezgins to die in it, to simultaneously have their internal problem solved, because Lezgins and Talishes still do show weak attempts to recover their national identity.

Many territories of Armenia were lost to Turks, and many were given to Az. by soviet government. Many of them are emptied by now from Armenians, as a result of methodological extinction of Armenians by Az. government. But highlands of Artsakh (known by turks and georgians as Gharabagh) still survived the extinction and were able to fight and win the right to live in the land of their ancestors.

We do not want war, even to recover territories that we lost to turks and azers. Because there are no more people on those territories, and land without people is not interesting to us. But if azers will try to restart the war, then chances are high that we will free also the the rest of Artsakh, as well as Nakhichevan, if the attacks come from there too. It will be stupid of them to even try restarting the war. And they will only do this if government (turks) gain enough confidence that it will be possible to again send Lezgins and Talishes to fight for them. Turks themselves of course have no motivation to fight for a land that does not belong to them and they will not send their children to die there. But government is methodically injecting hate into the new generation growing in Az. and eventually that may become possible. And both nations again will pay for the turkish desire to create the great turkish sea, where Armenia was always their biggest problem in achieving it. And loosing again, azers will start crying even louder for lands "occupied" by Armenia.

Edited by nkarich

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Turkish PM to visit Armenia for Black Sea meeting

Turkish FM Babacan will attend a meeting of the Black Sea Economic Cooperation in Yerevan.

Wednesday, 15 April 2009

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Turkish Foreign Minister Ali Babacan will travel to Armenia on Thursday for a regional summit in a step towards restoring diplomatic ties after a century of hostility between the neighbours.

Babacan will attend a meeting of the Black Sea Economic Cooperation in Yerevan, the Foreign Ministry said in an e-mailed statement on Wednesday.

Turkey and Armenia, which have no diplomatic ties, have been engaged in high-level talks since last year. Turkish President Abdullah Gul travelled to Yerevan last year to attend a football match between the two countries.

Turkey is considering opening the border with Armenia, which it closed in 1993 in solidarity with its traditional, Muslim ally Azerbaijan.

Armenia and Azerbaijan are in dispute over the breakaway enclave of Nagorno Karabakh, controlled by ethnic Armenians.

Turkey accepts that many Christian Armenians were killed by Ottoman Turks during World War One and that Muslims also died in internecine fighting, but denies that up to 1.5 million died

Reuters

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Кто бы сомневался ...

И вообще , куда он мог деться ? Или Турция является основным денежным донром для Пакистана ...

Очень несимпатичное , даже подлое выражение лица со слащавой улыбкой , но ехать ему было надо ... Эрдогана же должны отправить прямо из Москвы в Токио ... Пусть там поблатует , а не здесь языком трепет впустую ...

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Turkish foreign minister participates in BSEC meeting in Armenia

ISTANBUL - Turkish Foreign Minister Ali Babacan participated Thursday in a meeting of the Black Sea Economic Cooperation, or BSEC, in the Armenian capital of Yerevan.

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Babacan's trip to Yerevan coincides with stepped up efforts between Turkey and Armenia, which have no diplomatic ties, to resolve disputes stemming from history.

"We want a comprehensive solution and full normalization," Babacan was quoted by broadcaster CNNTurk as telling reporters aboard his plane when asked about the ongoing talks with Armenia.

Babacan is expected to deliver a speech in the 20th meeting of the organization, which groups 12 regional countries seeking closer economic ties, the Anatolian Agency reported.

Ankara and Yerevan have no diplomatic relations. Their border was closed in 1993 over Armenia's invasion of 20 percent of Azerbaijani territory and Armenia's pressure on the international community with the backing of the diaspora to recognize the so-called "genocide" claims instead of accepting Turkey's call to investigate the allegations.

Turkey and Armenia, however, have been engaged in a normalization process, including the reopening of the border, since Gul paid a landmark visit to Armenia last year to watch a World Cup qualifying football match between the countries’ national teams.

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Первая реакция из Баку на приезд главы МИДа Турции Бабахана в Ереван

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Первая реакция из Баку на приезд главы МИДа Турции Бабахана в Ереван

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Вот нам также нужно реагировать на провакации этих эки довлетов. А лучше сделать с ними, млять и не дрогнет рука.

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Первая реакция из Баку на приезд главы МИДа Турции Бабахана в Ереван

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Зомби екидовляти взбунтавались :lol:

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Lavn er es shaxsei-vaxsei nkary.

Lriv texin er. :lol:

Joxovurd lav imaceq, vor adrbejanciq mezanic lav giten Turqiayi hetaga qaylery.

Sranc es histerikanery lriv sarqats xax a.

Ynenc vor 4xarneq irakanutyan het.

____

Щяс азербайджанцы и турки вместе будут скорбить приезд Бадрджана в Ереван.

Хотя по большому нечего и не ожидается

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Babacan: We want Turkey, Armenia and Azerbaijan to win

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Turkish Foreign Minister Ali Babacan has said Turkey sees relations between it and Armenia from a broad perspective and that Ankara is looking for a solution in which Turkey, Armenia and Azerbaijan will all be winners.

"As Turkey, we want a solution in which everybody is a winner. We want Turkey, Armenia and Azerbaijan to win," he said on his way to the 20th Black Sea Economic Cooperation (BSEC) Foreign Ministers Council in Yerevan yesterday.

He also said Turkey is seeking "comprehensive and complete normalization."

"We don't say, 'Let's first solve one problem and solve the other later.' We want a similar process to start between Azerbaijan and Armenia. We are closely watching the talks between Azerbaijan and Armenia," he added.

Turkish and Armenian officials have been attempting to create a formula for normalizing relations between their countries, but Armenia's dispute with Azerbaijan over Nagorno-Karabakh looms in the background as a potential deal breaker.

Azerbaijan, Turkey's strategic and ethnic ally, has been uneasy with prospects of a rapprochement between Ankara and Yerevan, fearing it will lose key leverage in the Nagorno-Karabakh dispute if Turkey opens its border and restarts diplomatic ties with Armenia. Ankara has previously said normalization with Armenia is contingent on a resolution in the dispute over Nagorno-Karabakh, which has been under Armenian occupation since 1991.

A high-level diplomatic source said, "Turkey cares about Azerbaijan's problems at least as much as the Azerbaijanis themselves." The two countries have long boasted of their relationship as exemplary, describing themselves as "one nation with two states" to highlight their ethnic and strategic ties.

Azerbaijan's concerns have been fueled by media reports indicating that Turkey and Armenia could reach a deal to open their border as early as this month. But Turkish officials, dismissing such reports, have said the Turkish-Armenian border could be opened in October, when Armenian President Serzh Sarksyan is due to visit Turkey to watch a World Cup qualifying match between the national teams of the two countries.

Sources say Ankara will use the time until then to ease Azerbaijan's concerns and insist on progress in international efforts for the resolution on the Nagorno-Karabakh issue before proceeding with efforts to normalize ties with Armenia, even though Armenia rejects any link between the issues.

Armenian Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandian said yesterday at a BSEC press conference, "Turkey and Armenia have gone a long way toward opening the Turkey-Armenia border, and they will come closer to opening it soon." He said there had been no agreement yet between the two sides regarding opening of the border.

Asked about the potential opening of the Turkish-Armenian border, Azerbaijani Foreign Minister Mahmud Mammad Guliev said the solution to the two countries' problems should be tied to the solution of the dispute between Azerbaijan and Armenia.

Nalbandian, on the other hand, said the Nagorno-Karabakh dispute is being handled through the Minsk Group, created to find a solution to the Nagorno-Karabakh issue by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) in 1992 and co-chaired by Russia, the United States and France.

Asked if Azerbaijan has reservations about Turkey's ongoing talks with Armenia, Guliev said Azerbaijanis believe Turkey will protect their interests.

Just as there is ongoing dialogue between Turkey and Armenia, there is also a parallel and ongoing process between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Sarksyan and Azerbaijani President İlham Aliyev have met three times over the last year.

Yesterday Babacan met with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Azerbaijani Foreign Minister Guliev before leaving Yerevan. He also had talks with Sarksyan and Nalbandian.

Meanwhile, Russian officials expressed a desire for better neighborly relations between Turkey, Azerbaijan and Armenia. Through a statement from their embassy in Ankara, Russian officials said, "Russia has been astonished to see media reports about Russia attempting to persuade Baku that normalization of relations between Ankara and Yerevan is aimed at marginalizing Baku."

Russian officials said these allegations are baseless and that they have not changed their foreign policy of promoting stability and peace in the region.

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Fury over, bitterness lingers in Azerbaijan

BAKU - Turkey and Armenia have never before come so close to normalizing bilateral relations, and, similarly, Turkey and Azerbaijan have never come so close to rupturing theirs.

It is not just a coincidence that shortly after refusing to come to Turkey to attend an international conference, Azerbaijani President İlham Aliyev went to Moscow and called Russia "a strategic partner."

"If Turkey opens the borders with Armenia, what will be the difference for us between Turkey and Russia or Turkey and Iran?" said Asım Mollazade, the leader of the opposition Democratic Reform Party.

The news that Turkey was preparing to normalize its relations with Armenia has sent shockwaves through the Azerbaijani society.

In reality, not a single Azerbaijani official has talked openly about the government’s discontent on the possibility of Turkey normalizing its relations with Armenia without substantial progress on the Nagorno-Karabakh problem. But the press has been fiercely criticizing the ruling Justice and Development Party, or AKP, and everyone in Turkey knew that the media campaign was orchestrated by the Aliyev administration.

"If the government does not want, there won’t be any discussion. But lately, there was discussion everywhere, in universities, in the press. Everyone was talking against Turkey. There has been a campaign that Turkey has betrayed Azerbaijan. The government was behind it," said Arastun Orujlu, the head of East-West Research Center.

But the government is not alone in its frustration vis a vis Turkey. The opposition also shares the government’s resentment toward Turkey. "Opening the borders without a condition will be against the interest of both Turkey and Azerbaijan. Normalization with Armenia without progress on Nagorno-Karabakh will damage bilateral relations," said Nesib Nesibli, a member of parliament from the opposition Musavat Party.

"In Azerbaijan, anything else is black and white between the government and the opposition. But on the issue of Nagorno-Karabakh and relations with Turkey, they are united," said a foreign observer who asked to remain anonymous.

Situation calmed but bitterness remains

Although recent statements from Turkish officials that the borders will not be opened before progress is made on Nagorno-Karabakh, an enclave under Armenian occupation, seem to have calmed Azerbaijanis, the bitterness remains.

Turkey and Azerbaijan have cultural, linguistic and religious affinity. Their close relations and cooperation are often expressed by the motto "one nation, two states." Although Turkey recognized the independence of Armenia after the demise of Soviet Union, it has never established diplomatic relations because of Yerevan’s efforts to gain recognition of claims of genocide as well as its territorial claims. Armenia does not recognize treaties signed under Soviet rule that mark the borders in the Caucasus.

Turkey closed its border with Armenia when Armenia began its occupation of Nagorno-Karabakh and the regions surrounding the enclave. Until recently, Turkey tied normalizing its relations with Armenia to the solution in Nagorno-Karabakh.

But over time this connection has weakened. Under the pressure of several parliamentary decisions that recognize Armenia’s claims of genocide, Turkey has sought to normalize relations with Armenia. Turkish President Abdullah Gül’s visit to Armenia in September was a turning point, as secret talks between the two countries that had started before the visit gained new momentum. The two sides are said to have reached an agreement upon a protocol that draws a timetable for normalizing relations. But it has been unclear to what degree a solution to the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict has been included in the protocol.

Azerbaijanis have hard time understanding the benefit of opening the borders without visible progress in their talks with Armenia. "There is no reason to give such a gift to the Armenians at this stage," said Nesibli.

"Whatever the level of relations between Turkey and Armenia, the Armenian diaspora will not stop its efforts for the recognition of genocide claims all over the world," said Mollazade. "I will be the first one to argue for the opening of the borders if I knew it would be for the benefit of Turkey."

He dismissed claims that trade with Armenia would flourish as a result of opening of the borders. "The trade between Turkey and Azerbaijan is incomparable with the potential trade with Armenia," he said.

"Azerbaijan has been asked not to go to war with Armenia to get back its land. But we have been waiting for the past 17 years. The only peaceful way for us to convince the Armenians to release those lands is Turkey," he added.

He also dismissed claims that improving relations between Turkey and Armenia would lead to progress in Armenian-Azerbaijani talks. "Yerevan was ready for talks. But after there were signs of a breakthrough with Turkey, our negotiations started to drag on," he said.

An oil- and gas-producing country, Azerbaijan’s economy has seen steady growth since the late 1990s. It is one of the few countries in the region not affected seriously by the global economic crisis. Nagorno-Karabakh remains the only stumbling block in its economic development and integration in the world political system.

"Nagorno-Karabakh is the No. 1 issue in this country. That’s why the public outcry about Turkey has been quite ubiquitous. There is certainly a sense of being abandoned by the big brother," said a foreign observer.

"I can’t believe Turkey can do that," said Ennagi İsmailoglu, a taxi driver, adding: "Our relations will be seriously damaged if Turkey opens the border with Armenia."

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Russia- Turkey wars of supremacy in Azerbaijan

BAKU - Although the storm in Turkish-Azerbaijani relations has settled following assurances from Ankara that it will not open its borders with Yerevan before a breakthrough in Armenian-Azerbaijani issues is made, it seems difficult for the short term to eradicate the crisis of confidence erupted recently between Ankara and Baku.

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Ankara and Yerevan came very close to a deal that would normalize relations between the two countries but the process came to a sudden halt following reaction from Azerbaijan, which is opposed to the opening of the border without progress in the Nagorno Karabakh issue.

Turkey closed its borders with Armenia after the Armenian occupation of the Azerbaijani enclave Nagorno Karabakh, as well as other regions surrounding the enclave.

“We were not informed of the talks between Turkey and Armenia,” Asım Mollazade said of the negotiations conducted between Turkish and Armenian diplomats. The talks gained momentum following Turkish President Abdullah Gül’s historic visit to Yerevan last September. “We learned it from others,” added Mollazade, the leader of the opposition Democratic Reform Party.

The lack of confidence is not a recent factor in relations. When the Justice and Development Party, or the AKP, came to power, Baku hesitated to fully trust the new government in Ankara. “There was an apprehension towards the AKP. Baku was not sure whether the Turkic world would appear high on the agenda of the AKP. There was a suspicion that the AKP could prioritize other issues to the detriment of Azerbaijan,” said a foreign observer, who asked not to be identified.

Although the recent statements from Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and President Gül have calmed down the administration’s anxiety, the fact that the Turkish parliamentary group that went to Baku last week did not include AKP parliamentarians did not go unnoticed. “Relations with Azerbaijan should be a bipartisan issue. It should not be the victim of discussions between the government and the opposition,” said Mollazade, talking to Hürriyet Daily News & Economic Review right after a meeting with the visiting delegation.

Russian influence

In every conversation in Baku that involves the Caucasus, Russia is inevitably mentioned. Opponents of Russia see the hand of Moscow in the rapprochement between the Turks and the Armenians, as it will be detrimental to relations between Ankara and Baku.

“Russia wants the Caucasus out of the hands of the Muslims,” taxi driver Ennagi İsmailoglu said. “Russia will never want good relations between Turkey and Azerbaijan.”

In the short term, open borders between Turkey and Armenia will benefit Russia, especially in light of the recent war with Georgia, as it will have better access to Armenia where it still has military troops. Russian flights presently carrying ammunition to troops in Armenia are flying all the way from Turkmenistan. Furthermore, it will further isolate Georgia.

Turkey and Azerbaijan forged good relations right after Azerbaijan declared its independence. The Azerbaijani government, under Haydar Aliyev, the father of the current president has been careful not to alienate the Russians. “In fact we have always advised Azerbaijanis to go very careful with Russia, to avoid policies that might anger Russians,” said a Turkish diplomat who is familiar with the early stages of the bilateral relations.

Ever since independence, Azerbaijan has been the scene of rivalry between Turkey and Russia for cultural, economic and political supremacy. Turkey has the advantage of having linguistic, religious and ethnic affinity. The Turkish dialect spoken by the Azerbaijanis is easily understood by Turks. But the Russians have the advantage of having kept Azerbaijan under Soviet domination for half a century. Many Azerbaijanis still speak Russian.

İlham Aliyev, the son of Haydar Aliyev, who took over the government following the death of his father, is still surrounded by the members of the old Soviet cadres. “There is a pro Russian group in the government that is leading an anti Turkish campaign,” Arastun Orujlu, president of the East-West Research Center, said. After the advent of İlham Aliyev, Turkish soldiers were sent back to Turkey, claimed Orujlu. The broadcasting of Turkish soap operas, which are very popular among the Azerbaijani public, were stopped in an effort to avoid the influence of Turkish on the local dialect. “I see no rational in this decision. This came us a result of Russian pressure,” said Nesip Nesibli, of the opposition party Musavat.

Search for identity

Although Turkish officials recognize the presence of what they call “the Soviet-minded officials, who believe the center of the world is still Moscow,” there is not such a perception in Ankara that Azerbaijan is deliberately taken steps to decrease Turkey’s influence. “As Azerbaijani soldiers were also trained in Turkey, they are back in Baku to provide training themselves. The Turkish soldiers have finished their mission in Baku, it is only natural for them to leave Azerbaijan,” said one Turkish official. There is also a relative understanding in Turkish circles for Azerbaijani efforts to keep the local culture away from the cultural influence of Turkey. “At one stage every kid in Azerbaijan was wearing t-shirts of the nationalistic film ‘Valley of the Wolf.” Differences emerged in the language spoken by the grandfather and the grandson,” said a Turkish businessmen living in Baku.

No matter how the two sides’ officials perceive the cultural wars, the fact remains that the recent developments seem to have reinforced the suspicion on the part of the Aliyev administration toward the AKP. “The recent events have shown to us that the motto ‘one nation two states’ has remained only rhetoric. We have not been able to substantiate it,” said Nesibli. “The Turkish government made the mistake of conducting talks with Yerevan without consulting Baku. Our administration, however, made the mistake of making its discontent public, instead of handling it through the diplomatic channels,” Nesibli added, criticizing the decision of Aliyev not to go to Turkey.

“Baku resented the fact that Turkey took them for granted,” one foreign observer said.

“What I see is the need to talk more, we need to be more in touch with each other,” Mollazade said of how to overcome the confidence crisis between the two countries known until recently as strategic partners.

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Karabakh must be part of equation

ISTANBUL -The Foreign Ministry spokesman of Azerbaijan says Turkey and Armenia risk raising tensions in the region if they go ahead with their plans to normalize relations before the dispute over the Armenian occupied Nagorno-Karabakh region inside Azerbaijan is solved.

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Azerbaijan warned Turkey and Armenia yesterday that they should only normalize relations if Armenian troops were withdrawn at the same time from a disputed enclave inside Azerbaijan, reported Reuters.

Azerbaijan said Turkey and Armenia risked raising tensions in the region if they went ahead with plans to normalize their relations before the dispute over the Armenian-backed enclave Nagorno-Karabakh inside Azerbaijan was solved.

Turkey and Armenia announced late Wednesday that they had agreed on a framework for normalizing relations, the first of its kind since Turkey closed its border with Armenia in 1993 in protest of the occupation of Nagorno-Karabakh. Following the announcement, Azerbaijan urged its close ally Turkey to link reconciliation efforts with Armenia to the withdrawal of Armenian forces from the disputed region.

Leading the tension

Baku has long insisted that any deal should be contingent on Armenian concessions in the dispute over the ethnic Armenian enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh, which separate from Baku control during a war in the early 1990s.

"Every country has the right to establish bilateral relations with other countries," Azerbaijani Foreign Ministry spokesman Elkhan Polukhov told the AFP. "We believe, however, that the normalization of Armenian-Turkish relations must proceed within the context of the withdrawal of Armenian armed forces from Azerbaijan's occupied territories," he said.

"We hope that the process which has begun between Turkey and Armenia will continue in the framework of statements that were made at the highest level in Turkey.

"The opening of the Armenian-Turkish border cannot take place without a process to resolve the conflict over Nagorno-Karabakh. Opening the border could lead to tensions in the region and would be contradictory to the interests of Azerbaijan," Polukhov said.

He said it was "too early" to discuss what steps Azerbaijan might take in retaliation.

Azerbaijan, a supplier of oil and gas to the West, fears losing its leverage over Armenia in the dispute if Turkey reopens the border with Armenia and restores full diplomatic relations. Officials have hinted that energy-rich Azerbaijan would consider cutting gas supplies to Turkey if Ankara ignored the Karabakh issue in its talks with Armenia.

Fear of West

Azerbaijan is Europe's key hope for supplying gas for the proposed Nabucco pipeline that would run through Turkey and reduce Europe's energy dependence on Russia. Diplomats fear Baku could reject European overtures and instead sell the gas from phase two of its Shah Deniz field Ğ due to come online by 2014 to Russia for re-export.

"If Azerbaijan feels that Turkey is betraying them, then why would Azerbaijan not move in a Russian direction? And the Russians are offering to buy all their gas at European prices," Svante Cornell, research director at the Central Asia-Caucasus Institute, said.

Last month, Azerbaijani state energy firm Socar signed a memorandum with Russian gas export monopoly Gazprom on starting talks on Russia buying Azerbaijani gas from 2010 for export to Europe.

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В Баку ожидают Эрдогана

Открытие турецко-армянской границы Азербайджан увязывает с решением карабахской проблемы

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Переговоры по нормализации армяно-турецких отношений и разработка «дорожной карты» стали предметом широкого обсуждения и в Азербайджане. Баку настаивает на том, чтобы процесс был жестко увязан с разрешением карабахской проблемы. Размолвка между стратегическими партнерами оказалась неприятной, и сглаживать шероховатости взялся премьер-министр Турции Реджеп Тайип Эрдоган.

Рабочий визит Эрдогана в Баку ожидается в любой ближайший день – назрела острая необходимость консультаций с президентом Азербайджана Ильхамом Алиевым. Об этом со ссылкой на самого премьера сообщили практически все информационные источники Турции. В посольстве этой страны в Баку «НГ» подтвердили, что визит состоится, но когда – официальной информации на этот счет пока нет. При этом в пресс-службе посольства заметили, что ситуация прояснится после заседания Совета безопасности Турции, которое состоялось во вторник и было посвящено в том числе вопросу урегулирования отношений с Арменией. По данным турецкой газеты Today's Zaman, именно после этого заседания будут проведены консультации с Баку на высшем уровне.

Пока же тема возможного открытия турецко-армянской границы стала предметом дискуссий и главной темой обсуждений на страницах местных газет. Как заявил журналистам депутат, член постоянной парламентской комиссии по экономической политике Панах Гусейн, «конечно, не хотелось бы, чтобы границы между Турцией и Арменией были открыты до достижения продвижения в нагорнокарабахском конфликте и освобождения оккупированных земель Азербайджана». «Но Турция – суверенное государство. И если она примет решение открыть границы, то о каких-либо санкциях против этой страны не может быть и речи», – заявил он. При этом депутат считает, что «потепление турецко-армянских отношений, ставшее причиной определенного расхождения Баку с Анкарой, не должно повредить дружбе и братству между Азербайджаном и Турцией».

Активные контакты Анкары с Ереваном проходят на фоне интенсификации переговорного процесса по мирному урегулированию армяно-азербайджанского конфликта, о чем свидетельствуют челночные поездки в регион сопредседателей Минской группы (МГ) ОБСЕ.

Накануне сопредседатель от США Мэтью Брайза заявил, что «решение карабахского вопроса возможно в течение ближайших месяцев». «Точно мы не можем этого предсказать, но я надеюсь, что в течение нескольких месяцев это возможно», – сказал дипломат. В то же время Брайза отметил, что «власти США, Франции и России всегда считали, что нормализация отношений между Арменией и Турцией станет полезным развитием для региона». По его словам, этот процесс «также будет способствовать решению карабахской проблемы». «Мы считаем, что оба процесса будут двигаться вперед параллельно, по отдельности, и скорости этого движения будут различными. Об этом свидетельствует то развитие, очевидцем которого становятся сопредседатели», – сказал Мэтью Брайза.

«Оптимистичные выступления сопредседателей МГ ОБСЕ и московские заявления президентов Азербайджана и Армении внушают уверенность в скором решении проблемы... Если руководители Азербайджана и Армении выступают с оптимистическими заявлениями, то мы не вправе им не верить», – считает вице-спикер Милли меджлиса (парламента) Азербайджана Бахар Мурадова.

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Его физиономия и в фас и в профиль ... А промыслы Биби-Эйбата так и остались на уровне 1918-го года ... Как будто ждут , что скоро приедут настоящие хозяева и приведут в порядок всё хозяйство ...

Но "физия" и в самом деле прикольная ... На "завмага" универсама тянет ... Не знаю , его покойный отец о чём думал , когда его тащил за уши в политику ... Очень тяжело было старику наверное ... Не позавидуешь ...

Edited by SamvelT

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Как икидовлятные брадиа Азербайджан в унитаз сливали.

Columnist Hasan Kanbolat, an expert on Caucasian politics, disagrees. He explained to Today's Zaman that the opening with Armenia has reached a point where backpedaling is no longer possible. "I think stability and security in the Caucasian region has become a transatlantic issue and both the US and the EU want the problems resolved," he said. Kanbolat believes the ongoing diplomatic process will stay on course despite the public backlash, which he thinks could have been handled much better.

After Russia's invasion of Georgia last year, the West has learned its lesson and will try to nudge both Armenia and Georgia to accept the protective custody of NATO and even of the EU, Kanbolat argued, noting that Turkey has little room to maneuver under the present circumstances. "Even that maneuverability will be limited to conjecture," he stressed.

Commenting on his recent fact-finding mission to Azerbaijan, Yılmaz Ateş, deputy chairman of the CHP, told Today's Zaman that he found Azerbaijan fuming over the prospect of Turkey opening its border with Armenia. "They are very frustrated with the Turkish government because they claim Ankara has kept Baku in the dark on the content of secret talks being held since 2004 through a Swiss intermediary," Ateş noted, saying Azerbaijani officials felt they had been betrayed by a friend.

Ankara has long claimed that Azerbaijani officials are well informed about the talks and have been kept abreast of the latest happenings. Both President Abdullah Gül and Prime Minister Erdoğan have repeatedly made assurances that Turkey would never agree to any settlement with Armenia without resolving the Nagorno-Karabakh problem; however, this does not seem to be working well to alleviate the concerns of Azerbaijani officials. At a meeting with European Commission President José Manuel Barroso on Tuesday, Azerbaijani President İlham Aliyev warned Turkey, "We have the right to re-establish our policy in accordance with the regional realities, and we shall exercise our right."

Explaining what went south in Azerbaijani-Turkish relations, Ateş pointed to the Russian factor. "Moscow handed the details of secret talks between Turkey and Armenia over to Azerbaijan. The details were turned over to the Russians by Armenia," he noted. "We constantly heard from Azerbaijani members of parliament who said, 'Turks should have let us in these secret talks and not gone behind our backs'," Ateş said, recalling his tour of Baku.

остальное тут

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