ObjectiveHistorian

Why nobody talks about peace and solidarity in this region. Is it a forgotten term there? I want to hear more about some hope in this part of the world. Why everybody is so preoccupied with the past, with hatred against each other. Is there going to be a day when one can be able to sit on a table side by side with Serbs, Bosnians, Bulgarians, Armenians, Greeks, Turks and Iranians and tell the common jokes, sing common tunes without thinking about the bad memmories just looking with smile and hope to the future. Any optimists around???

Karadjordje, I am sorry to intervene, but as far as I can see from your pictures in your website most of the victims are killed by Croatians. And Croatians are Christians even though not Orthodox as you. And the picture with the head in the hand of one the muslim fighters seems like photomontage. I am sorry if I am wrong. Ti da si jiv i zdrav! Regards

ASALA's actions are not accepted as reasonable way of sruggle in international politics arena. I think ASALA even was harmful in our process of getting international support for the acceptance of the genocide. What you will gain from the assasination of several Turkish diplomats. That brings more sympathy to Turks than Armenians, considered in that case as terrorists. It was an easy way for revenge, nothing else. If I may say "a masturbation" not a solution.... Regards

Did you hear the news guys. Even Americans that we rely on are getting against us!? This guy Samuel Weems wrote a book named Armenia- the terrorist Christian State. Really though times are about to come..... Ebal sam im maykite!!!

Peace at home, peace in the world!!!

Just check out Banana Republic and GAP and you will see that 30% of products are from Turkey.

Dear Voter, I see that you are very decided to close your eyes even to facts. But I would advise first to know your enemy very well. You are wrong in many aspects and this one is one of them. Look what U.S department state says about your misleading remaks ( http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3432.htm) : " ....Trade: Exports (merchandise, 2001)--$31.3 billion; (2002) $35.1 billion. Imports (merchandise, 2001)--$48.5 billion: textiles and apparel, iron and steel, electronics, tobacco, and motor vehicles; (2001) $39.5 billion: petroleum, machinery, motor vehicles, electronics, iron and steel, plastics. Major partners--Germany, U.S., Italy, France, Russian Federation Italy, Japan, Netherlands, U.K... " O-o and some bad news....: The U.S. and Turkey have had a Joint Economic Commission and a Trade and Investment Framework Agreement for several years. In 2002, the two countries indicated their joint intent to upgrade bilateral economic relations by launching an Economic Partnership Commission. Turkey has been designated a Big Emerging Market (BEM) for U.S. exports and investment by the Department of Commerce. In 2001, the U.S.-Turkey trade balance was almost even, with each country exporting approximately $3 billion to the other. The United States is Turkey's third-largest export market. And regarding Turkish goods in Armenia and Kazahstan and other neighboring countries. That is not Turks who brings these goods, mostly Russians, Azeris or even Armenians bring them in their country in hope to make some money from this trade. Annoying but true. Let's don't mislead people who doesn't know. Regards.

Another reason for the impossibility to convince the world regarding the genocide is the Jewish opposition against that. And as everybody knows nowdays Jews rule the world, starting from USA. And here is why they oppose us: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Armenian-Nazi Collaboration in WW II ============================== To validate a spurious genocide allegations, the Armenians curry favor with the Jewish people, and manipulate the Holocaust tragedy to gain some undeserved recognition from this uniquely Jewish experience. Historical evidences point to a devious Armenian collusion with Hitler to exterminate the Jews during WW II. Today, no matter how much the Armenians try to conceal this heinous episode from the public knowledge the Armenian conspiracy with Hitler is in the history books-- indelibly. Soon it will be in the public conscience too. In early 1930s, when Hitler ascended to power, he began cultivating the Armenians to use their long-standing and strong anti-semitic feelings in his plans and policy. The Armenians, through their publications, radio broadcasts and meetings supported and cheered the Nazis on their attacks on Jews. Alfred Rosenberg, who was to become later Hitler's Minister of the Occupied Territories, declared that the Armenians were Indo-European, or Aryans, which honored them and put them in the same league with the Nazis. In Hitler's foreign policy the Armenians fitted very nicely too. Hitler's future invasion plans of Russia provided a golden opportunity for the Armenians to liberate what they considered to be "Historic Armenia" from the Soviet as well as the Turkish rule. The short-lived Armenian Republic established in 1918 in the southern Caucasus by the Armenian Revolutionary Federation (TheDashnaks) was conquered by the Russian Bolsheviks in 1920, and ceased to exist. This time, the Dashnaks saw a good opportunity in the collaboration with the Nazis to regain those territories. To that end, on December 30, 1941 they formed a battalion of 8,000-strong known as the "812th Armenian Battalion of Wehrmacht" under the command of Dro (Drastamat Kanayan), a seasoned guerilla leader who had fought against the Turks in the Eastern Turkey before and during the Turkish War of Independence following World War I. Later, he became the supreme commandant of the Armenian army in the short lived Armenian Republic, and in 1920-1921 he organized a wide-spread genocide against the Azeri and the Turkish populations in the region. This is documented in the book World Alive by the U.S. Naval officier Robert Steed Dunn who was an eye-witness to those Armenian atrocities. Lieutenant Dunn was the Intelligence officier of Rear Admiral Mark L. Bristol, the American High-Commissioner in the region and also a de facto American Ambassador in Turkey. Between 1919-1921 lieutenant Dunn travelled extensively with Dro and his army in the region, and both made several contacts with the Russian Bolsheviks, the Turkish and the Armenian National forces. With this historical perspective, this new task assigned to Dro by the Nazi leadership after a quarter of century later seemed to be a break to fulfill his dream of conquest. This alliance alarmed Turkey and the Turkish Jews. The British Ambassador in Ankara reported to London that "The Armenians [in Turkey] are extremely fruitful ground for German activities, and these non-Muslim elements with their pre-Kemalist [i.e. Ottoman period] mentality are always viewed with mistrust by the Turkish authorities." (Public Record Office, Foreign Office document: F.O 371/ 30031/ R5337) This infamous 812th Battalion later developed into a so-called "Armenian Legion" of 20,000-strong with the efforts of Alfred Muradian, a German-Armenian, and by Armik Jamalian, the son of the Arshak Jamalian, the Foreign Minister of the short-lived Armenian Republic. The troops of this Legion were trained and led by the SS and its Security Division S.D., and they joined the Nazi Einsatz Gruppen in the invasion of the Crimea and the North Caucasus. These Armenian Battalions rendered valuable services to the Nazis as police units for internal security duties in the occupied territories. It was their duties to round up the Jews and the other "undesirable" elements, and organize the death marches to the concentration camps. Pursuing those familiar utopic dreams, and shrewdly manipulated by the Nazis, the Armenians foolishly tied their lot to Hitler, and praised him lavishly in the Armenian-language daily Hairenik on September 17, 1936: "... and came [to power] Adolph Hitler after herculean struggles. He spoke to the racial heart strings of the German, opened the fountain of his national genius..." Then, in August 19, 1936 the same daily Hairenik published the following: "Sometimes it is difficult to eradicate these poisonous elements (the Jews) when they have struck deep root like a chronic disease, and when it becomes necessary for a people (the Nazis) to eradicate them in an uncommon method these attempts are regarded as revolutionary. During a surgical operation the flow of blood is a natural thing. Under such conditions dictatorship seems to have the role of a savior." The daily Hairenik dated August 20 exposed the following bigotry: "Jews being the most fanatical nationalists and race-worshippers, are compelled to create an atmosphere of internationalism and world-citizenship in order to preserve their race. As the British use battleships to occupy lands, the Jews use internationalism or communism as a weapon..." The September 25, 1936, Hairenik Weekly, an English language organ of the Armenians (edited in Boston) denounced Zionist aims, and adopted a strong anti-Jewish and pro-Arab view, and printed the following: ".. the type of Jews who are imported to Palestine is not anything to be proud about. Their loose morals, and their vices... and on top of all, their communist activities were the cause of most of the Arab criticism." The August 9, 1935 issue of the Hairenik Weekly published a vitriol about "the Jewish controlled film industry", then ascribed the massacres of the Jews by the Greeks and Armenians in Salonica to the Jewish love of gain. The May 10, 1935 issue of the Hairenik Weekly quoted the vice-Mayor of Bucharest, Romania as saying: "The Armenians have helped us Romanians not to become slaves of the Jewish elements." Romania was one of the foremost anti-Semitic country where the hatred for the Jews reached hyperbolic dimensions. Starting in the summer of 1942, a twenty-five years old Armenian by the name Suren Begzadian Paikhar organized and led the Armenian National Socialist (Nazi) movement called Hossank (Lightening), which gained a considerable following among Armenian youth in German-occupied Europe and to some degree in Turkey too. On December 15, 1942, these Armenian-Nazis and their supporters in Germany coalesced into the Armenian National Council under the direction of professor Ardeshir Abegian, and the vice-president Abraham Chulkandanian, and several old Dashnak guerillas, like Vahan Papazian and Karakin Nezhdeh, who were the veterans of the Turkish wars in the Eastern Anatolia after the World War I. Blessed by Alfred Rosenberg, this organization spew forth anti-Semitic and racist vituperations through the broadcasts of the Radio Berlin, and their weekly journal Armenian, published until the end of 1944, and edited by Viken Shant, son of the another well-known Dashnak leader Levon Shant. Suren Begzadian Paikhar and some Hossank followers worked as commentators/ announcers in the French and Armenian radio services of the Nazi Ministry of Propaganda under Goebbels. In those programs Paikhar was usually introduced as the Fuhrer of the Armenian people. (Patrik von zur Muhlen, Zwischen Hakenkreuz und Sowjetstern - Dusseldorf, Droste, 1971, pp. 105-106) The Armenian general Karekin Nezhdeh also founded the racist Armenian Tseghagron movement, through which the Armenian youths flocked to the SS and the other elite Nazi military forces. (Karekin Nazhdeh by James Mandalian - The Armenian Review I, 1958) Other Armenians living in France and Germany joined the 58th Panzer Corps, and the Ostlegion of the Wehrmacht's 19th Army, based in Lyon, France. The Dashnaks and the Hossank Armenian-Nazis worked closely with Admiral Canaris, who was the chief of the the German Military Intelligence (Abwehr), and his principal agent Hans Pickenbrock, the chief of the Branch No: 1, who was in charge of spying to obtain military information, as well as with Dr. Paul Leverkuhn, a key agent in Istanbul and the Director of the Istanbul Substation (KO-Nebenstelle) of the "War Organization Middle East" (Kriegsorganisation Naher Osten) from July 1941 until August 1944. This organization administered a major Nazi intelligence network, not only in Turkey but throughout the Middle East. The Armenian nationalists actively worked in those Nazi organizations to hunt down the Jews, and cooperated with Reichspropagandaleiter in spreading the Nazi propaganda in Turkey and in the Middle East. In these efforts they enlisted the support of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who was a close ally of Hitler. During the early years of World War II, Germany was sweeping through the Western Europe, and all the prognosis for the outcome of the war were in favor of Germany. As the Armenian ethics always dictate fawning on the victor, they calculated -or, miscalculated- that it was about time to commit themselves entirely to Hitler's victory. They summarily formed a "provisional" Armenian government as a dress rehearsal for their soon-to-be-realized aspirations. However, in 1943 the fate of the war began shifting from Hitler to the Allies. The Armenians, the perennial political chameleons, summarily renounced their allegiance to Germany, and did an about-face, this time groveling before the Allies. "

Well, I agree that Jews have stong influence on Turkey's politics. But that is in Turkey's interests, too. Especially in a region like middle east you need at least one country to rely on in case of conflict with Arabs. And Turkey as a "secular" country in the region is in the interest of Armenia, too. Just think about it, if there was not Ataturk now Armenia would be a neighbor of a country like Iran or Iraq, and they wouldn't give a shit about what Europeans or Armenians think about them. I think in this conditions having a "secular" and Western oriented Turkey makes Armenia safer. And if Turkey is accepted to EU, that I doubt, that would be even better for us. Then we will deal with EU itself and that is easier. And in case it happens what I am afraid is many of our patriots would even refuge to this country as a port to EU. Just a correction, current Prime Minister is Tayyip Erdogan, a guy that we should be concerned about. A proislamist and a threat to the secular regime.

Come on guys! Armenians were smart people even under Ottoman rule they were very succesful!!! Look at this list: FAMOUS ARMENIANS OF THE OTTOMAN GOVERNMENT *Agop Gircikyan - Counsellor of the first Turkish Ambassador, Resid Pasha. *Krikor Agaton- Chairman of the Ottoman Post and Telegram Office (1848-50). *Sahak Abro- General secretary of the Ministry of International Affairs (1850-). *Sebuh Laz- Secretary in the Turkish Embassy in Paris (1863). *Krikor Odyan- Principle of the International courts. *Serkis Effendi- First Secretary of Ministry of International Affairs (1870-1871) *Ovakim K. Reisyan- Judge *Artin Dadyan Paa- Counsellor in Ministry of foreign Affairs (1880) *Diran Aleksan Bey- Ottoman Ambassador for Belgium (1862) *Yetvart Zohrab Effendi- Ottoman Ambassador for London (1838-1839) *Hirant Duz Bey- Ottoman Ambassador for Italy (1900-1907) *Hovsep Misakyan Effendi- Ottoman Ambassador for La Haye (1900-1907) *Sarkis Balyan- Turkish Consulate for Italy (1900) *Azaryan Manuk-Counsellor of Ministry of Foreign Affairs *Kapriyel Noradunkyan-Minister of Foreign Affairs (1912) *Agop Kazazyan Pasha- Minister of Finance *Mikael Portukal Pasha- Counsellor of the Ministry of Finance (1886) *Sakiz Ohannes Pasha- General Secretary of Ministry of Foreign Affairs (1871), Minister of Finance (1897) *Garabet Artin Davut Pasha- Ottoman Ambassador for Vienna (1856-1857), Governor of Lebanon (1861), Minister of Internal Affairs (1868) *Krikor Sinopyan- Minister of Internal Affairs *Krikor Agaton- Chairman of PTT (1864) *Jorj Serpos Effendi- General Secretary of Turkish Communication (1868) *Osgan Mardikyan-Minister of Communication (1913) *Tomas Terziyan, Nisan Gugasyan, Tavit Circiyan- Professors of Political Science. *Krikor Zohrab, Bedros Hallaciyan- Istanbul deputies

Don't forget my friend that Israel needs water and gess what, they recently has signed a treaty for import of water from Turkey. So they desperately need to be close with Turks. Another thing, Turkey is the only muslim country in the region wtih a secular and democratic regime. And may be the only muslim country that has good relations with Israel, too. Having a strong Christian country in the Middle East really doesn't have to do anything with jews. Moreover, some of jews doesn't really like Armenians especially because they were taught that Anatolian Armenians killed some of them during these tough times around 1915. So we don't have anything to rely on jews. But may be russians ca help us!

The point is let's unite our efforts for the happiness of our nation, let's have our Armenian Diaspora come to Armenia, let them help us with our economy. They have lot of influence abroad. Let them make enterprises in Armenia, make jobs for our people. People need hope and ideals to struggle for. Young people need to stay in this country and work to make it a part of the developed world. Unfortunately, now Turks are in better condition than us in terms of economy and international reputation. Let us be better.

Dear Solomon, it seems that this message hit you very hard. I am sorry. But of course every nation has culture, even Turks. The definition that you use is may be superior culture. Well, I am not from these people that think that they have the prioroty to consider his/her culture being superior to others. These times are over my friend since Hitler died. The respect is which keeps different people together. But I hardly believe that you could handle to respect Turks. I don't know how many Turks you have seen in your life but I have seen at least couple and they seemed humans to me. They don't have horns as many think. They are as you and me. They sometimes can even think for your surprise, but they do. But tell me this what you will gain from this national hatered? This is poisoning us, and younger generations are more affected somehow more that the actual victims. Do you think it is a matter of nation. I doubt, because Turks were not nation until may be 1930's. So we have to calm down and think with enthusiasm for our future. It is difficult to respect these people but we can learn, and that is going to make us superior and wise culture. Best regards.

Guys, we need to move on and try to facilitate our relations with our neighbors including Turkey. If you look in the culture we have many common things with this nation and most inportant one the history. It is true that we had survived very bad events especially in 1915. But before that let's remember that we were privileged ethnicity in Ottoman Turkey and we had relatively good life. Every normal person in current Turkey of course would accepts that what happened in 1915 was very bad unacceptable unhumane thing. Forget about everything only the idea of deportation is bad enough to be unacceptable as a solution for preventing the national movement of Armenians. Yet using the word "genocide" for describing these vents seems very "strong" to today's Turks. Of course, the rulers of the time are guilty for everything they have done. But implying the word "genocide" to condemn a whole nation seems unacceptable by most of the modern Turks. Because, there has never been a hatered against Armenians in Ottoman period until the uprise of Armenians in the beginning of 20th century. And that is because as everybody would expect a reflex reaction to something unexpected. Turks were not as shocked by the efforts of Greek or Bulgarians to liberate as the Armenian movement mostly because as everyone knows they were proclaimed "milleti-i sadika" (Loyal nation) by the Ottoman authority for centuries. They were able to get very high ranks in the Ottoman hierarchy. Most of the famous Ottoman composers were Armenians. That's why the Armenian uprise was cosidered more like a betrayal by the Ottomans. Especially, affter the relation of Armenian patriots with Russians became more evident. But may be another solution for Armenians was not present who knows. So, even liberation movement can be accepted by most of the people as a natural right especially after the nationalism has been put in the stage at the end of 19th century we shouldn't forget that a ruler would do everything to keep its country united and would use force if needed as all the rulers would do. So both sides had their rightful motives for action in this unfortunate time. And that conflict lead to the awful events that everybody knows. But let see today we are 90 years away. And we are still discussing the same things and we would insist with hate and anger about the things that wouldn't change anything any more. That thing would only prolong our own problems in the region. Look at our region - we are isolated, we are stuck in our own chians of hatered. Time to move on and do good things for our nation right now and for the future. Let's get rid of the bad memories that brings us in a vicious cycle of hatered. Don't forget get lessons, but don't forget that even lessons last for 45 mins at school then you go and learn something else.