voter Posted April 11, 2003 Report Share Posted April 11, 2003 Kakomeister. If you will try to find out the facts about how the armenians survive during hundreds of years of violation of Anatolia by turkic hords, you will possibly start to understand the why there exists a genetic-hate in most of armenians to everything tukic, that also showing himself up here in words of takvor...I am not going to say, that anybody living in Armenia or Europe are hating the turks. But the fact that nobody LIKE them is moreless clear. One never hearing "I like Turks" even from non-armenians. At least I can say for myself, during my last 7-8 year wandering through the Europe and by the way I have spoken with Arabs, Persians, Pakistanians, a muslim brothers even don't like turks.Didn't you thought about it? The ordinary turkic people know what they are and where they are living. Up to now the regions, where from Armenians in have been exiled, are not populated with turks so much, mainly kurds in southern part of Van lake. Having land from Caucasus till Mediterranean sea and don't having any military operations or wars during last 70 years turks still want to move into Europe instead of developing "their own" land. Don't it sound strange for turks who claim that they came from that land?And the turks don't like the creation of anything, that could change the style of their dirty life, life of nomadic people, who don't have anything like houses, churches and moreover science. They still live with animals in same rooms like hundreds of years ago. Even I can say, the Muslim religion they accepting as it is same as their live and really making adaptation to their lifestyle. For instance, Turks drink and produce alcohol, which denies the Muslim religion. So why even their so called brothers by religions Persians and Arabs, who are also Muslims don't like turks as they don't count them as a Muslims. Turks are the ones who are the masters to desecrate anything.Just an advice, the Muslim religion, do not deny people to LIE. This is one of the thing, that one don't need to forgot, when speaks with ones grown up on so called turkic culture. For armenians from my point of view the turks are the ones who don't let them to be armenian, build houses, make farming and live settled in one place for a while....Guess you got the point from my soup of english sentenses.I like to read the words, which proof the fact of existance of people in Anatolia-Turkey who try to find out the real reasons of what and why it happened with armenians a citizens of Ottoman Empire. Keep trying.... Link to post Share on other sites
Kakomeister Posted April 12, 2003 Report Share Posted April 12, 2003 I am very sorry, but it is impossible to piss me off by insulting islam, christianity, or any other religion, because I am not religious, although I believe in God. Someone wrote that Pakis, Arabs and other Moslems don't like Turks, and that is also very true. But do you think that Georgians, Maronites, and Greeks (in other words, your fellow Christians) like Armenians. The answer is a big NO, I know this from personal experience, also from several forums and email exchanges between Armenians and your fellow Christians. And the reason? Because all nations of the Middle East, Caucasus and Balkans, including Turks, Greeks, Armenians, Arabs, Jews, Serbians, etc. have an intense and pathetic ego problem. All of these nations define their national characteristics as being superior from the neighbouring nations. Superior my ass! If all of these Middle Eastern, Balkan and Caucasion nations are superior, why is the Western Europe, united and strong, growing more and more prosperous while our region is an eternal shithole? I can feel that some of you will blame Ottomans for all the wars, probably for the earthquakes and Halley comet, but I cannot help you since I am not a shrink. France and Germany, which were at each other's throats from 1871 until 1945, are now the catalysts of the United Europe. What about Armenians vs. Azeris vs. Greeks vs. Turks vs. Albanians vs. Serbians vs. Croats? Still ready to find the best opportunity to attack eachother and drink the other's blood. So much from your 'lying', 'asshole', 'animal' Turkish 'opponent'. Please continue to think that you are the perfect, most deserving, and purest nation, and go on to hate all the Turks more intensely than ever. My respect and apologis go out to candid and artur, who seem reasonable and willing to show some effort to understand the other side's position. To those of you who keep waiting for the day when you will be stronger than Turkey and will be able to drink as much Turkish blood as you can, all will respond with a Turkish proverb: "Itin duasi kabul olsa gokten kemik yagar" i.e 'if dogs' prayers were answered by God, bones would rain from the sky". God bless you all. Link to post Share on other sites
voter Posted April 13, 2003 Report Share Posted April 13, 2003 Kakomeister seem you didn't got the point. I will try to point out the points........1.I never heared, that somebody says "I like turks", but I heared at least from France "I like armenians" and especially from Greek " I like armenians".... I want to stress, not the fact that the armenians are aslo not the angles, but at least they are inclined to build, develope,make something for a country where they live, the turks only asking for permission to live in that countries, e.g. Germany. Never thought why there is no so much Turks in US? I think because there you need to work, if not you will not be able to survive like in Germany, just getting a social help as Asyl...2.I am not religious too and the piont is as an example to show the insincere nature of turks, who like to say that they are muslims, building even a mosques in Europ, but same time exporting a wine MADE in TURKEY. If you eve bring a bottle of best armenian cognac in Iran they will break it on custom controll behind of your eys, this is why they are muslims and turks are insincere. The point is that whole history of turks after Ataturk is insincerity...3.How it is for you, when you live somewhere, build a house settle down with a family, develope your business say shoes making year by year and somebody comes and says "I have a power I am your master I need a land where you are living for my sheeps and because I don't now any other style of live than nomadic you will be resetled oft". Will you like him...This is why the Ani an ancient capital city of armenia, the one of biggest city and center of trade and live and different religions in middle east at middle ages became a VILLIGE, when turks have violated it....And turkic govement still trying to hide the fact of being of armenians in Ani, just visit it and you will see wha't going there...4. The new point, armenians have no any problems and with Kyrgyz, Turkmen, Kazak, Karakalpak, Uzbek, Oguz Turkish, Gagauz, Salar, Nogay, Kumyk, Karachay-Balkar, Karaim, Tatar, Bashkir, Altay, Modern Uygur, Lop, Mogoli, Yakut, Dolgan, Tuva, Tofa, Khakas, Shor, Chulym, Yugur, Khalaj, Chuvash, all this are turkic nations living from china till black sea. And I don'T count the people living in present turkey mainly around Ankara asa ones who have really so much connection with turkic nations. In Turkey the people are asymilated kurds, jews, armenians, arabs, assyrians, greeks, phynikinas etc and the question is that people call themselfs Turks and always looks like I said in previous 3 points, which make them a foreign substance for a people like armenians, who what to live non nomadic life....I guess soon the border of Armenian-Turkey will be again open and the business will put everything in correct places in relations of armenians and turks, but I never will belive, that armenians will TRUST turks and belive them for anything, like noone of jews couldn't trust the germans... Link to post Share on other sites
Artur Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 please everyone stop insulting each other! solve your problems outside of the forum! there are girls in here! be men! ditya ararata, kakomeister there is a Private Messeging system built in with this room use it! Link to post Share on other sites
takvor Posted April 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2003 Your brothers who kill their own parliamentarians or Azerbaijani children may agree with you, but not the entire Armenian nation. It's very interesting, rather funny I'd say, how you guys become very sensitive when Azeri-Turkish blood is shed, or when what you think as a Turksih land (I mean the Armenian Artsakh) is lost by your Azerbaidjani brothers. You now find yourselves in a situation that your Azerbaidjani brothers lost both lives and land. So, now you can share a commonicity of thought with us. You know how it feels. And, it just a start, my friend. Link to post Share on other sites
Kakomeister Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Takvor,I don't give a damn if murderers, rapists, occupying forces, or perverts get hurt or killed, regardless of their nationality.I would be really sorry if innocent people, especially women, children are tortured, raped, or killed, be they Turkish, Russian, Armenian, Azerbaijani, Mexican, Martian, etc... The life of an innocent and well-meaning Armenian is more important and precious to me than the life of a Turkish murderer. Obviously for you, the same is not true. An Armenian murderer, especially if his victim is Turkish, must be your hero. Link to post Share on other sites
takvor Posted April 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Unfortunately, we all know here that you don't mean a single word of what you wrote, which is just politically correct phraseology learned by your kind in the Western world.The bottom line is, your kind continues to deny the most obvious, most documented, and first genocide of the century.There are many reasons to this, the main reason is that (1) "recognition", implies it follows with (2) "reparation" and (3) "restoration".So, after so long, it doesn't really matter whether or not the turkish govnt recognize the genocide or not, for we will go directly to Step (3) ourselves.Time is on our side, and we'll get our lands back, my friend. Link to post Share on other sites
Artur Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 kakomeister, few questions for you: do you agree that the mass killing of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire could be called genocide? answer it...man, you don't know what your ancestors did. apart from killing 1 and half million of armenians, they almost erased from the earth the assyrians... furthermore they erased every and each ubikhs... now these people don't exist anymore, and perhaps you don't know about them... ubikhs were christian inhabitants of the caucasus (abkhazian region) long time ago... they moved to east turkey 200 handren years ago, but were totally wiped out in the beggining of the last century... Link to post Share on other sites
Kakomeister Posted April 21, 2003 Report Share Posted April 21, 2003 Takvor, man, wake up, why would I want to kiss your arrogant as*? -Do you think that I need to be admired by you and your kind who I don't know? NO!-Do I ever expect any benefits or favours from Armenians, in present or in the future? NO!-Do I ever intend to visit Armenia and experience your kind's hate? NO!-Do I work for any Turkish gov't, institution or whatsoever which needs to gain the sympathy of Armenians? NO? My participation is out of simple curiosity about what Armenians feel and think, so I will disappoint you if you look for conspiracy theories, Western phraseology and other nonsense.Artur, I do consider a genocide what happened in Ottoman Turkey between 1915 - 1924. I never denied this since I was 17, and openly told this to everyone I know in Turkey. About how I feel about it, you already know from my previous postings. About other people you claimed that Ottomans killed, my answer is not a simple 'yes' or 'no', I did now know about these 'ubikhs', and will try to read about it. If you have a suggested reading (non-Armenian and non-Turkish sources please!), let me know.But, during my time in this forum, I realized that this 'recognition' you so much desire, is only a first step for you. Takvor was very honest in this aspect, and said that reparation(2) and restoration(3) are the following demands. So imagine, one day you have the military power to occupy Eastern Turkey. What are you going to do, kill and expel millions of Turks who had settled there and make space for Armenians? If we reject restoration (3), but accept reparation (2), in what form should that be?And what about American Indians, should they start to kill all white Americans when one day they have enough military power? What about Israel which killed and expelled millions of Palestinians just because their ancestors lived in that land 2000 years ago? Does history justify Israel's current occupation of West Bank and Gaza ( I remind you that the majority in these territories are still Arab, not Jewish) Man, I did my best to answer your questions as sincerely as possible, it is your turn to answer mine now. Link to post Share on other sites
takvor Posted April 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2003 You don't need todo ass kissing now, but when the EU admission dealine comes, your kind will do some ass kissing to EU govts.Similarly, when Armenia's economy develops, and Eastern Turkey's economy goes down due to the side effects of the blocade, you and your govt will pledge for closer ties with neighboring Armenia, and you all will do the ass kissing. For, this is what your culture is primiraly based on: kissing ass to foreign powers, and blackmailing. We've seen a perfect example of this during the Iraq crisis.Regarding your argumentation about Indians, this simply makes me laugh. Turk hords have tried to destroy an entire civilization that was at least 8 centuries ahead of theirs at the time. In the early XXth century our grandparents in the Armenian highlands lived in worse conditions than in the years 1200. Your kind has brought nothing. And people in Eastern Turkey, still live pretty much that way. Simply because, Turkey has no other wealthy minority or righer neighboring country to prey on.So, Indians are lost my friend because their culture was too behind at the time of American conquests, and they haven't made any progress.As for us, we are still superior to your kind in many respects. So, when the time comes, you will simply have to leave our land, to make space, or...... Link to post Share on other sites
Artur Posted April 21, 2003 Report Share Posted April 21, 2003 kakomeister only one book exist in russian. it is more of a interview with the last of the ubikhs. the old man died about a decade ago. the reporter spent 5 years in order to reach the old man, who was living in the mountains alone. and after 5 years when the reporter received the acceptence from the elder he opened the truth about these people. i've read this book... it is very interesting, not sure if you could find it in foreign language. after recognition there maybe some territorial demands but not from the government. our government commented on this and called such move unhealthy... it is impossible. what we will be wanting is to open the border for Armenians to leave in their lands of ancestors, pray in the churches of the grand fathers... that's what we want. Link to post Share on other sites
[a] Posted April 21, 2003 Report Share Posted April 21, 2003 kakomeister only one book exist in russian. it is more of a interview with the last of the ubikhs. the old man died about a decade ago. But didn't he have any children not to let their ethnos die? (Sorry for the offtopic but I'm very interested). Link to post Share on other sites
Kakomeister Posted April 21, 2003 Report Share Posted April 21, 2003 Artur, there are two Turkish authors who acknowledged and wrote about Armenian genocide. They are called Asim Tanis and Hakan Ozpinar, both were, as you might guess, not very welcomed in Turkish press! Hakan Ozpinar was never heard about outside Turkey, but Asim Tanis' original work was written as a PhD thesis at a German University, and then translated in Turkish and English. I assume it would be available somewhere in the internet... Link to post Share on other sites
Artur Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 ,Apr 22 2003, 01:25] But didn't he have any children not to let their ethnos die? (Sorry for the offtopic but I'm very interested). He was living alone up in the mountains. from the words of this man, all his family, ancestors and relatives were massacared. i read this book about 2 years ago, it is by abkhazian writer, the name i don't remember, but will tell you later on... the matter of fact that this nation does not exist anymore... first they were forced to leave their lands in the Northern Caucasus they moved to Turkey... then were totally wiped out in the beggining of the 20th century. nowadays you will not be able to find a single ubikh. Link to post Share on other sites
Artur Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 the discussions are not going anywhere... i have to close the topic... Link to post Share on other sites
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