miko

The congress is hearing the Armenian Genocide Resolution RIGHT NOW I am watching it online, follow the link I posted above. American Armenians need to act now !!!

The House Foreign Affairs Committee WILL VOTE on the Armenian Genocide Resolution (H.Res.106): http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/schedu...sp?subnav=close You can watch the discussion LIVE ONLINE, Go to http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/ at 10.30 am Pacific Time (10.30 pm in Armenia), click on the third picture on the right menu saying "live WEBCAST" and watch it, only at 10.30... If you live in US, during the webcast: ** . . . if a Member says something that upsets you, call the Capitol Operator (202) 225-3121 and ask to be connected to his/her office so that you can share your disappointment. ** . . . if you notice that a traditionally friendly Member of the Committee is not in attendance, call the Capitol Operator (202) 225-3121 and ask to be connected to his/her office to politely encourage their participation and support for the Resolution. IT'S TIME TO ACT !!!

There is no reason to continue arguing about stalin. I know from my family history and millions of others know from their family stories what a bloddy monster stalin was. Now you protect him. some people protect hitler, that's you're problem. I don't think I will change your mind because you, like many and many in today's Russia simply want to build an Russian empire no matter what. You don't care about the truth or freedom or rights of people (and amaizingly enough majority of Russia's population doesn't), you only care to have a strong Russia like once stalin was trying to do through murdering millions. That seems OK for you. That will never be normal to me. To me there are more important values in life... I don't care wether it was an president of the US or Russia. Everyone who kills innocent people is a killer to me. bush is a war criminal to me for murdering so many innocent people. stalin is a criminal to me and more a monster who MASACRED HIS OWN PEOPLE. The difference is that stalin murdered his own countrymen who he was supposed to protect and this makes him one of the worst monsters of the history of humanity. I am not discussing here every single president of Russia (including soviet empire) or the US, because many (almost all) of them were envolved in different wars (i.e. I don't want to talk about Chechnya, Afghanistan or etc..., that's a big topic) Of course stalin could've done worse, like, as you say, throw an atomic bomb or attack Pearl Harbor in US masacring so many innocent people with no reason... But masacring his own people is to me (and normal person in the world) is worse enough... You say :"standards of living improved in USSR very much, country got stronger, population increased, etc. Also, USSR started to help other countries a lot." Of course everybody who lived in soviet empire know what is "good living" by spviet standards, those "good standards" are and were considered good in normal countries only for low income poor families... Do you Russians, or citizens of Russia ever ask why in this huge country with so rich resources people can't have normal living conditions? What's wrong? Why so many millions are escaping from Russia to the US or Europe - either for political or economical reasons??? Nazi? I never used words "stupid", "primitive", you did. But if you want to see nazis in action just follow what's going on in Russia - nacizm and fasism is growing every day... I never said there is a universal way for all the countries to live with but there are human right standards accepted by UN (signed with all the member countries) and those standards are being violated every day in Russia. You say:"The USA is in fact a fascist military state with powerful propaganda, brainwashing machine, oligarchs, mafia clans, etc. " ...funny....ihollywood movies in action... and still millions of people either are finding refuge in the US every year and millions are dreaming about that every day, including citizens of Russia... paradox? People escape from free and good Russia to "fascist, mafios" bad US. You say:"Anyone knows what these "internation organizations" are all about. They received an order, and they could create any stupid information "proving" that Russia is hell on earth, and that there is less freedom than in North Korea. " And this was typical in soviet times everybody around us says we are not giving people rights, journalists are being prosecuted, free speech is being banned etc. but that's the work of the capitalist militarists who wants to destroy the soviets. Look around everybody around is wrong about Russia? All the international human right agencies received an order to criticize Russia? All ar wrong about your country? You say"uring the 90's in Russia some newspapers got closed, journalists also got killed regularly, and for an average citizen in fact there was less freedom than it is now, because of the high level of criminality, total disorder in every sphere... mafia and so called "reket" openly walked everywhere with guns in their pockets... And where were those "international organizations"? " And you are wrong again: Just read the reports of those same agencies for 90's and you'll see that they report the problems your country had back then. Here is the same agency I mentioned International Press Institute, 1998 World Press Freedom Review "The obstacles facing the media in Russia are manifold: assassination is still tragically used to good effect to silence unwanted voices; cases of intimidation and harassment are commonplace; the ‘oligarchs’ blithely manipulate the media for personal gain; and a Communist-led Duma introduces legislation to censor and control. Murder has shown itself to be the preferred method of censorship in at least five cases in Russia this year." and so on... They were reporting you were not listening and you don't listen now because to build a Russian empire were human rights and freedoms are not as important as the nationalistic ideas, the US and Europe are enemy since they show that people deserve to be treated as human beings with all the human rights. And this is it. You love living in Russia, then enjoy it (if I belived in god i would say god with you), I live in a country that I love mostly because a person has rights here which are protected by the state. And that's it. I don't think it's wise for me to spend my time on discussing problems of Russia. I defenetly can spoend my time in much more important things. Good Luck!

The video is already in a Russian blog and the title "Видео где Тигран Кеосаян угрожает коренному населению взяться за кирпичи": http://vesti-ru.blogspot.com/2007/07/blog-post.html

Уловимый мститель Кинорежиссер Тигран Кеосаян вызван в прокуратуру ЦАО Москвы для дачи показаний. Он должен прийти туда в среду, сообщил во вторник в эфире "Эха Москвы" его адвокат Павел Астахов. По словам Астахова, депутат Николай Курьянович обратился к генпрокурору Юрию Чайке с требованием привлечь Кеосаяна к уголовной ответственности. Депутат счел, что высказывания режиссера в эфире телепрограммы "Субботний вечер с Тиграном Кеосаяном", которая выходит в эфире Рен ТВ, направлены на разжигание межнациональной розни. Астахов рассказал, что, рассказывая в эфире о своем детстве, Кеосаян вспомнил случай, "когда его обидели во дворе, назвав по национальности и унизив". "Его папа Эдмонд Кеосаян сказал: "если он выше тебя и больше, бери камень - и по голове", - отметил адвокат. - Тигран при этом сказал, что никогда так не делал и не будет делать. Депутату показалось, что он призвал к расовой национальной вражде, призвал бросать камнями в русских". Решение о возбуждении уголовного дела будет приниматься после дачи показаний. Астахов сообщил, что уже были допрошены представители Рен ТВ и продюсерской компании, которая выпускает эту программу. Сам Астахов стал недавно объектом прокурорской проверки в связи с публикацией романа "Рейдер". Тогда Коптевская межрайонная прокуратура вынесла постановление об отказе в возбуждении уголовного дела, не найдя в романе следов клеветы на правоохранительные органы. http://grani.ru/Society/Xenophobia/m.126600.html

There is no point to discuss democracy, Russia have never seen or known democracy. It's simply people in that country historically want or need an father-tsar-god to follow and obey. It's always been like that. Just latest polls shown that majority of that country want tsar-putin stay 3-rd time (in contrary to constitution) simply because of the father-tsar syndrom. About free media. The examples of free channels you brought are STS and REN-TV. STS is an channel established by an American businesman and it's an entertainment channel. "У нас нет политики, - говорит основатель СТС Питер Герв. - Путин ведь не рассердится, если ему не понравится фильм?" (The Wall Street Journal) Here is some facts about REN-TV: In November 2005 REN TV fired Olga Romanova, the anchor of its daily 24 news flagship.[6] Romanova had told the US-funded Radio Free Europe on 25 November 2005 that the channel's head, Alexander Ordzhonikidze had pulled two recent stories for, she felt, political reasons. One censored item had covered an investigation into Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov's son's involvement in a road accident in which a woman died. Romanova spoken about the alleged censorship on Ekho Moskvy radio on 23 November 2005 – and the next day Ordzhonikidze barred from entering the channel's building.[7] A second 'banned item had been about the building in central Moscow of a US $15 million church and clock tower by a Kremlin-backed sculptor, the Internmational Press Institute noted in its report on 2005.[8] Ordzhonikidze, had said on Ekho Moskvy that REN TV's news output had low ratings – and management had decided to try other anchors on the evening newscasts, Russian state news agency RIA Novosti reported. "Besides, it's hard for one person to anchor all the nightly newscasts every day of the week. [They] might just feel ill," he had added.[9] In solidarity with Romanova, several of her journalist colleagues quit the channel in December 2005. Head of news and deputy channel director, Yelena Fedorova ,told Radio Free Europe's Russian Service why she had resigned.[10] "A lot of content-related directives have passed by me. As a journalist, I cannot put up with that, I cannot live with that," she told state news agency RIA Novosti on 5 December 2005. Editor Olga Shorina and producer Tatyana Kolokova were also planning to leave the channel because, they said, it was impossible to perform their professional duties.[11] President’s (vladimir puti) Mate Takes Over Ren TV (Dec. 19, 2006 Commercant) Public TV's in every normal country has programs especcialy live programs from both governing parties and opposition equally. In Russia that's not the case. News is only pro-kremlin and opposition predominantly being criticized on public TV. Just read any report of any international organization on freedom of speech and media in Russia. Russia is next to some African countries. example: The Moscow-based Glasnost Defense Foundation (GDF) recorded 1,345 cases of harassment of journalists and press freedom violations in 2006. Among them are journalists’ deaths, as well as physical attacks, threats, lawsuits, cases of censorship, attacks on newspaper offices, confiscation of print runs, among others. (International Press Institute)

Completeley not true. stalin as a strong person (by person i don't mean a human being but and evil) was simply fabricating cases and calling whoever they wanted spies etc. As I said I know that from my family history and don't need to see the fabricated numbers of todays regime. You say: "Again, not all victims shold go on count of Stalin" Even if this (in some mistical way ignoring the millions he killed) was true and even if he killed just one innocent person, he should be hold responsible for it and called a KILLER. No matter how hard you and the new "historians" try, it is fact stalin was a monster , murderer, he acomplished a genocide of his own people and the whole world knows that. Wow, what an example. stalin did kill innocent people (doesn't matter how many) and that admit even people who protect him, so your example doesn't work because the people killed in your example were not innocent.

You say: "And the fact that thousands of the enemies of people and state were killed - yes, it was normal. When inncoent people were killed - this was tragedy, but why should we cry for some traitors & scum?" what does it mean an enemy of people? and who you consider enemy of people? who you consider an enemy of state? some of my family members were called to Moscow and didn't return back only because their relatives were "dashnak" before bloody communists came. They didn't act against stalin or country. Now they are enemies? and you are happy? If you are happy I would use your words that you described the famous chess world champion to describe you. The communist state was the only enemy of people: stalin and all the bloody communists. What a logic, stalin is a good person and humanitarian (?????????) because he killed less then trotski could've killed. even if trotski was worse then stallin that doesn't justify stalin and doesn't make stalin a normal person. HELLOOOOOO, HE KILLED HIS OWN PEOPLE, PEOPLE WHO HE WAS SUPPOSED TO PROTECT AS A LEADER OF COUNTRY. Defenition: a person who kills, called a killer. a leader who kills many people, citizens of his country, those whose rights he was supposed to protect called MONSTER. P.S. Being smart is relative to a field of a person and I never said that a chess-school kid is smarter then a scientist (though he may be smarter in chess or something else) it depends on what do you mean by saying smart. When I said Kasparov is one the smartest minds od Russia (and I repeat that) that was an answer to your message where you "couldn't" figure out whether Kasparov is "просто больнoi на голову" ili net. That's why I said he is smart meaning smart in his field by he way being smart in chess helps to have an analytic mind and use it in other situations. But since Kasparov not just a chess player but a world champion in chess, that already speaks itself. Once again that was an answer to your message where you simply put down all the people who disagree with tsar putin.

A kto bil stalin, ne bolshevik? Not only he was bolshevik but also "narodnii komissar po natsionalnim voprosam", to est ego vina ogromna v etom... on bil ne prostoj bolshevik no odin iz rukovoditelei i sledovatelno neset otvestvonnest za vse krovavie sobitiya. A kto otdal Karabakh to azeram??? ne stalin? In order to make your case you simply dismiss his role whenever you want. You say: "У него был громадный минус и за этот минус я не снимаю с него ответственности........для лидера это самая большая ошибка........." Minus eto kogda prostie lyudi delayut oshibki, a kogda v rezultate "oshibki" lidera strani people are being murdered (the number doesn't matter here) eto myagko govorya prestuplenie pered narodom i eto ne proisxodilo tolko odin raz a v techenii let... You say:"Тысячи сотрудников НКВД и партработников допустивших перегибы были расстреляны........." and you think this is normal. He created an atmosphere of fear and terror and you think that's normal? The numbers that you are trying to find or reduce can not be true because most of the cases were not documented at all or were documented falsly. But again numbers don't play a role. Even if we play your (or today's Russia's) game and assume for a second that stalin didn't kill a single person, only the fact that he created an emipre of terror and fear, put so many people in concentration camps mostly for having not communist views and let so many people to be murdered is enough to call that poddonok a monster...

stalin was "народнi комиссар по делам национальностей", it's not as you say "никем", that is a real big position. and he did sign a "декрет" which made possible to murder more and more Armenians, i.e. he did help turks to do that. Now you contradict yourself when you need it you say stalin had a strong character and one of the greatest emperors of all times. So as a man with that character he is responsible not only for murdering of Armenians in Western Armenia but also for every single murder done when he was a leader of the soviet empire. Otherwise he didn't have that strong character, was a marionette of others and then he is again responsible since didn't have that courage and as a weak person he let the genocide of Armenians and the genocide of population of soviet empire to happen. i.e., no matter he was strong or weak person HE DID SIGN a "декрет" and he either did order (most likely) or he did let the genocide of soviet people to happen, in both cases he is responsible.

Here is just some of the negative actions that stalin did towards Armenians: ...Сталин в качестве Народного комиссара по делам национальностей подписал 29 декабря 1917г. /11 января 1918г. вместе с Лениным Декрет Совета Народных Комиссаров о независимости турецкой Армении. В качестве гарантии свободного самоопределения армян декрет предусматривал вывод российских войск с занятых в ходе Первой мировой войны территорий турецкой Армении... ...Вывод русских войск из турецкой Армении имел трагические последствия и для армянского народа. В условиях, когда часть армянского населения турецкой Армении была вырезана, другая - депортирована в "лагеря смерти" в пустыне Месопотамии, когда спасшиеся от резни и "депортации" начали возвращаться на свою родину, вывод российских войск, единственного гаранта безопасности уцелевших армян, объективно означал предательство. Тем более что Геноцид был организован турецким правительством под тем предлогом, что армяне помогали или могли помочь войскам России в Первой мировой войне.Утверждение, будто вывод войск необходим для обеспечения "свободного волеизъявления" армян, в существовавших тогда условиях было циничной ложью. Советское правительство информировали, что за выводом русских войск неизбежно последует резня армян. Eto oznochaet chto znaya chto turki rezyat i budut rezit bolshe armyan esli bolsheviki vividut voiska, stalin i lenin sposobstvovali genocidu armyan.. read more... http://www.golos.am/index.php?option=com_c...1&Itemid=41 Автор Юрий Барсегов "СТАЛИН И АРМЯНСКИЙ ВОПРОС"

Postorayus popozzhe dlya menya ne legko po russki.

1. Bring me an exapmle of major TV channels that are accessible to majority of the population and not controlled by putin. 2. I don't belive that Novodvorckaya has said "90% of the population of Russia should be killed..." 3. Chess is not just a sport (like basketball), it's an mental game, i.e. in order to succed in chess a person should be intellectualy developed and in order to win and become a world champion, he needs to have a brain that works better then pthers or to put it simply smart. 4. Elections? Only once a son of a president was elected as a president among if I am correct 42 presidents and that was a result of an election. However in Russia presidents don't get elected at all. Yeltsin simply transfered the power to Putin and now Putin will deside who is the "preemnik". A wife of a president simply running for a president with all the equal rights as others. So you think a wife of one of the previous presidents can't run for a presidency? Corruption? In your country corruoption is everywhere starting from police to the top of the state. It is even loughable to compare Russia, a country where simply there is no freedom of speech or free media or human rights- according to international observers...

Some people are simply addicted to "purifying" the bloody history of communist regime of Russia or soviet empire in order to recreate the empire in today's Russia. Interestingly enough historians like you remind me so-called historians of the first period of the soviet empire who had to falsify history to create a new communist history. So called historians who simply change the history to accommodate their regimes. Please keep your "dreams" about stalin to yourself or go and create a new history in Russia. It is not going to work especially in an Armenian forum because that monster murdered so many Armenians. P.S. even if we count your numbers: hundreds of thousands but not millions murdered (just let for a moment walk away from the truth) still that's a genocide that that poddonok did to his own people and even in that case he deserves to be called one of the worst monsters of the history of humanity, next to hitler.

Of course "обычных людей", i.e. those who don't criticize government or tsar, have no problems with liberties and human rights because they don't use them, they simply obey their god-putin but those who do criticize simply get killed and you talk about people who simply think differently then putin as kind of second-sort, low-quality people and that's one more time asserts that today's Russia simply lives in a dictatorship... You call people who disagree with government as "людей масса просто больных на голову людей" or "масса прямых агентов влияния" i.e. you think that normal people cannot think differently then government. This is exactly the mentality of people brainwashed by dictators (e.g. stalin, hitler, mao and today putin), people who think their dictator is always right... and this is one more proof that in Russia something is wrong. You try to compare Kasparov with a "гангста-реппер или полит-некорректный маргинальный интриган" he sure can't be compared with a "гангста-реппер" since he is undoubtedly one of the best and smartest minds of Russia so what's left is "полит-некорректный" and this again means simply thinking differenlty then government i.e. a normal thing in normal countries, so what? You try to find some comparison with the US. Of course what today's US government does in Iraq is more then wrong to many (according to latest polls to majority) of Americans. But the situation in the US and Russia is simply incomparable because in Russia non of the major TV stations can openly criticize the wrongdoings of putin. All the TV's that accessible to the majority of population is under tsar's control, in the US the major TV's not only brutally criticize bush but also mock him. There are several TV shows that simply kill bush by their harsh criticism. DVDs of films such as Michale Moor's "Fahrenheit 9/11" and others that simply call bush a liar and worse are freely and openly listed in public (gosudarstvennii) library for free rent. The society is open to free speech, free harsh criticism of government, in Russia that simply does not happen. For doing that people simply get killed or go to jail or have to ask refuge outside of Russia...

It's clear what is going on. Today's Russia, according to many known international human right agencies, is a country where there is no free speech, no free media, journalists are being killed or tortured or ask for political refuge outside of Russia, where political opposition is being oppressed. And since the tsar putin is building a russian empire, now they overwrite the history of their country and turning their communist bloody history into a great historical times... because of that the new historians are representing, for instance stalin as a hero instead of a monster. You guys can deceive your own people, because russians always wanted and needed a tsar and were ready to serve their tsar-god... but you cannot fool the rest of the world... I will never forget that that devil-stalin killed my family members only for having different political views and other millions of relatives of people murdered by stalin will never forget that too...

There are different estimates of stalin's massacres people of it's own country and all of them are many and many millions (not only directly murders but also deaths-killings in concentration camps) and even it's not as many millions as different sources say that's still is a genocide of it's own countrymen... It is unbelievable to see how one can protect an evil. stalin and hitler are equally bloody monsters...

The answer is simple if you explain-define what you are asking (either you are asking scientifically what we mean white or just the simple everyday-life meaning). So I take your answer as YES, the god of the old testament is the god. Then you say it was right and just when the god ordered to kill people who worship other gods and you bring some reasoning... Here no matter what the reasoning I would never agree that killing people only because they have different believes may be justified. Nothing can justify that... I claim that the god who orders to kill unbelievers cannot be just, cannot be right and cannot be powerful... Again no matter what the reason is (was)... Talk to you tomorrow.

Domovoy, You say jesus is the next level, i.e. i take it as the god (the father) was wrong in something and something needed to be changed and there came jesus, otherwise why they (writers of those books) needed another character other then god. I take it as laws of the old god were not good enough and jesus comes to change them. christianity started with the old testement, that's how the god was defined and now you say that "судить о До Христовом времени (времени Закона) с позиций христианства silly" i.e. i get it that because before jesus times were different, laws of god were different and now it's been 2007 years after jesus and times and morals are totally different now then when jesus was alive, probably it's time to change the rules of thoose books, what do you think?

It's all depend what do you mean by saying " белый цвет" or how you define it, scientifically white is the combination of all the colors of the light spectrum and there could be other defenitions. However if we are talking about the color white in its everyday life meaning, we all understand what white is in that meaning. Because of that I didn't ask a general question. I specifically asked about the god the way it appears in the old testement or to put a little more mathematical the god "defined" in the old testiment. He is either god or not. If I ask you is 1+1=2 and if you are a math person you may not understand what I am saying ask me to define what is 1 that I am talking about and then I will explain tou that 1 as an element of natural numbers, then you will (hopefully) answer "YES."

Domovoy, A simple question to you: is the god of the old testement god (almighty, just, all powerfull and absolute truth) or he is not a god?

Hi Domovoy, Here I am going to stop bringing passages from the bible because comparing what you find and what I bring from the bible it is clear one more time that the bible is simply a book of fairy tales many of which simply contradict to each other... because of that I simply don't want to waste my time on searching that book, there are many much more important books to read... What you do, you see morals only as something that is only religious or gotten from religious books. That's not right. We don't take our morlas from religion, religion has taken morals from existing philosophical views of the time. As I pointed out if we took our morals from religion we would, for example, still have slavery because bible takes slavery as a normal thing...

Etot ublyudok, chto unichtozhil milionov i milionov ne vchem povinnix lyudej? Etot dyavol? Ya ne veryu i nexochu verit v eto.

Again, here you controdict to Jesus, who simply says the only way to go to heaven is to belive in him as a god and this simply says only christians will go to so-called heaven... However because the bible is full opf contradictory statements anyone can use it for whatever he wants... I don't beleive in god (at least I am sure that the so called god described in jeudeo-christian books simply a fiction character), does that mean I don't live. of course I do and I don't need to be feared by the master-lord not to do bad things (if you don't recognize jesus as a god you will go to hell and burn in fires forever)... I love this beautiful world, I love helping people and i don't need to be scared by so-called hell to be the way i am... You say:"ы опять пытаетесь применить принципы христианства к тем событиям, что происходили ДО Христа" I am not talking about what happened before jesus, i am bringing so-called god's words ordering to kill. That's the god the cristians recognize right? or it is not? if it is not god then say so, if it is god, then again killing people only because they have different believes or none is cruel and not just to me no matter 1000 years ago or now... if you think that's normal and your religion aproves that, then i can say nothing more about the moral you get from your (or any other) religion... You say:"Библия рабства ни в коем случае не поощряет" That's just funny, of course it does: "Thy bond-men and thy bond-maids which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you: of them shall ye buy bond-men and bond-maids. Moreover, of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land. And they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession, they shall be your bond-man forever." —Leviticus 25:44-46 "When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money." —Exodus 21:20-21 (RSV) "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes." —Luke 12:46-47 You say:"А где Вы нашли в Библии отношение к женщине как к человеку "второго сорта"?" Here you go: Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Colossians 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord. 1 Timothy 2:11-15 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing. 1 Peter 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands. I have no desire to search and find passages from that fairy tale book called bible simply because it's full of everything from very good and moral statements to veru ugly, sadistic and immoral ones. Everyone can pick something and use to prove his point... I don't think that any reasonable modern thinker can take bible seriously... But the worst thing is that all the different religions that exist today simly divide people, teach (not necesseseraly direclty) hatred towards people with no faith or different religions also judaism, christianity and islam all have killed so many innocent people and the count is continuing today...

Zdravstvuite, Vi uvereni, eto vashe mnenie, no Jesus govorit the only way to get to heaven is through him, edinstvennaya doroga v tak-nazivaemyi heaven tolko cherez nego, nado prinimat ego chtoby idti v heaven i eto prosto zakrivaet dorugu etogo xoroshogo ne-xristianina v heaven (zdes ya konechno govoryu o tak-nazivaem heaven-e, kotory yakobi sucheshstvuet)... Vo vtorix, konechno v biblii est mnogo xoroshix mislei, kak vi govorite naprimer: "Не убий; не суди, да не судим будешь; подставь другую щеку..." no est i ploxie kotorie naprimer ya prines, ili naprimer pooshcherenie rabstva ili roli zhenshchin kak lyudej vtorogo sorta itd. цивилизованныe принципи и демократическими ценности ne yavlyayutsya rezultatom xristiankskoj morali. Konechno xoroshie i moralnie chasti xristianskoj religii naverno vnesli kakoi to rol, no eshche zadolgo xristianstvo ili naryadu s xristianstvom suchshestavovali raznie filosofskie techenii kotorie propogandirovali moralnie kodeksi tak zhe mnogo drugix rabot mnogix avtorov o morali itd.. Esli lyudi vzyali svoi moral iz religii (ili iz religii tolko) to do six por mi imeli bi rabstvo itd... Пидофилия, зоофилия, инцест, канибализм, садизм, массовые самоубийства и убийства-жертвоприношения eto prosto negativnie yavleniya kotorie ya ne dumayu svyazani s kakim to religieij. A to kak obyasnit takoe ogromnoe rassprostroneniya pedofilii sredi xristianskix svyashchennikov. Ili mi mozhem schitat moralnoj soglasie na убийства-жертвоприношения Abraama svoego sina dlya boga? Eto moral kotoruyu nas uchit biblia? Ya uzhe ne govoryu chto v rezultate religioznoj agitatsii (ne vazhno pryamuyu ili ne pryamuyu) vo imya boga bili unichtozheni tisyachi lyudei... Eshche raz vo otrivke iz biblii chto ya prines, tak nazivaemij bog ne govorit ubej lyudei sovershivshix zlodeyanie, a ubej tolko potomu chto oni veryat drugogo boga (dazhetvoego brata, syna, docheri, zhenu ili tvoi blizkiogo druga). teper esli vy govorite nelzya sudit с позиций христианской морали события дохристианской давности. No togda davaite dogovoritsya chto eto ne po xristianski i eto ne xorosho i eto zlo, chto eto ne po-bozhski, chto oznochaet tot bog bil ne prav, chto oznochaet tot ne bil bogom, chto oznochaet the basement of christianity, the old testement is false, chto oznochaet ...