Thoughts of an anti-nationalist Turk

[Thug]

Armenia_Turkey_peace hello.

excuse mu for my english 'cuz i've forgotten many rules of grammatics

but you (turks) must understand that:

-Armenian Genocide is not a thing that ever happened in Osman Empire and we know about it 'cuz we are armenians

My Ancestors were from cities that are in Turkey now. Some of them had rank 'Pasha', 'Aga' and other till ~1890s. And most of them were killed then . As died 10 of 12 children of my grand-grand ma which was from Nahijevan (which is in Azerbaijan now)

And big part of armenians has such stories when their ancestors were killed. And we remember. And I don't want any peace. I want war!

And there are many descendants of armenians who lives in Turey nowadays, especially in Amshen, Hopa and so on. they were muslimized but remember (not all) that are armenians, but they can't say that they are armenians and say tha they're turks or kurds. Your governors know about this and our know too. You may not know about this 'cuz you live in Istanbul.

And I want to say that you must confirm with Genocide laws and return us some teriitories by Sevres Treaty not 'cuz we want it as "pay for killed armenians" but because it is our lands ('till 1894 and 1914 up to 80% of population there were armenians and they were very important part of turkish society).

So we want Genocide confirmation as truth agreement because when someone degrees Genocide we may think that there were not killed people and it's our invention. And it seems insult for us.

The most important is confirmation of genocide and not saying that it's our invention. And saying 'forgive' and so on but not (as many turks say) that if you will have a chance you'll repeat this action.

[Armenia_Turkey_peace]

I will agree with you on this one. But your comparison (Armenian attitude towards Turks and vice versa) is invalid and worthless. There is a victim/perpetrator issue, don’t you agree? You can’t equate the two.

Of course I understand your point. But try to understand my way of thinking too....The people who are of the same ethnic origin as me did terrible things so many years ago and all that was beyond my control. Why should I face any hatred because of that ? Anyway, I consider myself a human being who just happens to have Turkish ethnic origin.

I am sure you know what I mean here.

But, anyway… I’ve been in Turkey many times, and I am in agreement with you that the majority of Turks don’t hate Armenians outright. I would rather call their attitude towards non-local Armenians (like myself) “indifferent”, often times – “curious”, and that’s about it.

I noticed that educated people in Turkey are more inclined to talk about our problems in a friendly manner and don’t usually exhibit hostility. In the countryside (outside major cities) the situation is a bit different – curiosity takes over. Occasionally I encountered hostility, but it was very rare.

The same thing could be said about Armenian attitude towards Turks. As you may well know, Turkish citizens regularly visit Armenia, there are even some Turkish-owned businesses in Armenia. I don’t think they feel uncomfortable there, on personal level.

Recognition of the Genocide is rather a moral issue, which had been politicized over the years. Both Armenians and Turks are there to live next to each other for centuries to come. However, some moral issues have to be settled. Don’t you think so?

Sure...I agree with you here.

Now, the ball is in your court.

Cheers,

Bora

[Armenia_Turkey_peace]

Armenia_Turkey_peace hello.

excuse mu for my english 'cuz i've forgotten many rules of grammatics

but you (turks) must understand that:

Armenian Genocide is not a thing that ever happened in Osman Empire and we know about it 'cuz we are armenians

My Ancestors were from cities that are in Turkey now. Some of them had rank 'Pasha', 'Aga' and other till ~1890s. And most of them were killed then . As died 10 of 12 children of my grand-grand ma which was from Nahijevan (which is in Azerbaijan now)

And big part of armenians has such stories when their ancestors were killed. And we remember. And I don't want any peace. I want war!

So....you would like to see war between Armenia and Turkey ?! Sad !

And there are many descendants of armenians who lives in Turey nowadays, especially in Amshen, Hopa and so on. they were muslimized but remember (not all) that are armenians, but they can't say that they are armenians and say tha they're turks or kurds. Your governors know about this and our know too. You may not know about this 'cuz you live in Istanbul.

I am sure what you write above in the paragraph is true. I have heard about this many times too.I agree that this is sad.

And I want to say that you must confirm with Genocide laws and return us some teriitories by Sevres Treaty not 'cuz we want it as "pay for killed armenians" but because it is our lands ('till 1894 and 1914 up to 80% of population there were armenians and they were very important part of turkish society).

This 'giving land' thing cannot happen. You know that too....and, I am not saying it as a nationalist (in fact, as I wrote before, I am anti-nationalist)...it just cannot happen and also doesn't make sense. So for instance, all the Australian land should be given back to Aboriginal people ? There are so many examples in the world. How far must we go back in time ? Besides, there wasn't an Armenian republic, kingdom, etc. there when those terrible incidents of the early 20 th century happened. Anyway, I am sure only few Armenians find this 'give us land' attitude logical.

Turkish government should accept the 'atrocities' done against Armenians and apologise. 'Giving land' issue should not even be talked about...as for monetary compensation, this is a difficult and complex issue both politically and legally.....but I personally feel that it would be nice if Turkey offered compensation at least on some individual level. It is sadly true that many Armenians lost their land, houses and other property that time.

So we want Genocide confirmation as truth agreement because when someone degrees Genocide we may think that there were not killed people and it's our invention. And it seems insult for us.

The most important is confirmation of genocide and not saying that it's our invention. And saying 'forgive' and so on but not (as many turks say) that if you will have a chance you'll repeat this action.

Personally for me, it would be all right if Turkey accepts what happened as 'genocide'. But do you think that this is realistically possible on a political and even to some extent legal level ? If Turkey accepts what happened as 'atrocities'; apologise; open the Turkey-Armenia border; and possibly give some compensation on some individiual level, wouldn't all this go a long way towards mending a lot of bad feeling ?

Cheers,

Bora

Edited October 3, 2006 by Armenia_Turkey_peace

[Thug]

So....you would like to see war between Armenia and Turkey ?! Sad !

No I want to take part in it

I am sure what you write above in the paragraph is true. I have heard about this many times too.I agree that this is sad.

I want this people to not to be assimilated because there is a small amount of armenians in the world now and if we lose 0.4-2.5 mln armenians in Turkey, I think it would be very bad for us as nation

I am sure only few Armenians find this 'give us land' attitude logical.

I find logical to give Ararat and Ocakli-city, they are practically on border, and Ararat is as symbol of Armenia and Ocakli (Ani) - ancient capital so if you could "give us that land" + some contributions and saying "forgive". No, of course I don't want 1.5 mln turks to die. But you must confirm genocide and do that things Edited October 4, 2006 by Thug

[Kars]

Bora, do us all a favor: don’t place your replies within other participants’ quotes – doing so creates confusion. Thanks.

[Kars]

I question for you, Bora.

Do you realize that you, with your attitudes, are in a very small minority in Turkey?

[Armenia_Turkey_peace]

I question for you, Bora.

Do you realize that you, with your attitudes, are in a very small minority in Turkey?

Correct, Kars. But of course, we can never know the percentage

Well....it is not easy to change the mindset of most people here who were given incorrect things as part of their history education. There is also the factor of high-dose nationalism that shows its ugly face in many aspects of the society here....also there are the attitudes of past and present politicians....so, unfortunately, it will be very hard for the situation to change.

Oh...sorry about 'making a mess of the quotes' thing. I won't cause confusion like that again

Thug : Well, ok, I understand and sympathise with some of your thoughts. But if you say things like 'I wanna be a part of the war against Turkey.... 'Give us this part of Turkey'..., I don't think we can have proper and effective communication.

Well....folks, anyway, if one day there would be a panel or something like that in Armenia, that is open to everyone, then invite me and I will come. I am no politician or writer....but I would like to be a part of it.

But, are you sure I would be alright and welcome in Armenia ? For example, I went into an Armenian chat room and one person told me that he/she hates all Turks, whatever their views are. Then, another chatter told me that I wouldn't be welcome in Armenia. Then, on the Web site of a pub in Yerevan, the words were clearly written that they play all kinds of music except Turkish music.....come on folks, that's racism on a cultural level...that IS very bad and sad.

Things like this make me wonder whether even my humanist attitudes are appreciated. Sometimes I wonder...I am nearly 40....and have maybe about 20 years more to live (with my heavy-drinking and unhealthy-food lifestyle, I doubt I will last beyond 60).....so why am I wasting my time fighting nationalism and racism on the Internet....maybe I should go somewhere far from Turkey, Armenia, Middle East and all these troubled places and enjoy life on a remote island.

I mean....just makes me wonder

But, seriously, I hope that peace will prevail.

Cheers,

Bora

[Thug]

Well, ok, I understand and sympathise with some of your thoughts. But if you say things like 'I wanna be a part of the war against Turkey.... 'Give us this part of Turkey'..., I don't think we can have proper and effective communication.

Well....folks, anyway, if one day there would be a panel or something like that in Armenia, that is open to everyone, then invite me and I will come. I am no politician or writer....but I would like to be a part of it.

But, are you sure I would be alright and welcome in Armenia ? For example, I went into an Armenian chat room and one person told me that he/she hates all Turks, whatever their views are. Then, another chatter told me that I wouldn't be welcome in Armenia. Then, on the Web site of a pub in Yerevan, the words were clearly written that they play all kinds of music except Turkish music.....come on folks, that's racism on a cultural level...that IS very bad and sad.

That's noth, some of turks everyday write me in ICQ and tell how they """love""" Armenians. I don't like anything turkish. For me it is connected with killing of our nation's big part. But I hate "fighting with culture" for example, ruin your temples and so on. And when we enter the Kars, I'll do anything to re-build our churches and not-to destroy yours

So what's about war... You must know now that there are very many armenians in different countries n the world and biggest part of them are from Armenian Hoghland or somth you call now Eastern Anatoly.

So where are our lands and our country? Today Armenia is about 10% of territory where Armenians always lived (and there was Armenian State till losing independence). I have no neibourghoods in Armenia today, no conacts, no place to live. I want to live in Kars, Sarakamish, Adana and Trapizon, where my ancestors were from. We lived there for 2500 years and past 100 years we were deported and killed in our mothercountry. You think we will forget there and confirm that lands as yours? Just try to think as you were on my (and millions armenians who thinks so) place.

And I (we) don't want to leave this lands to our killer-state. 'Cuz we count this lands ours. And we feel that. I can't describe but I don't think another nation can understand us, we are very old nation and very strong connected to each other. I FEEL armenians and Armenia, I feel our lands and other armenians do so. We feel Armenian Highland, our motherlands, feel our churches and any cultural monuments... You may know that armenian language and culture has small changes from ancient and came "as it was", it's genetic ))) I can't describe this feeling but every armenian feels so. I don't see this in other nations.

Things like this make me wonder whether even my humanist attitudes are appreciated. Sometimes I wonder...I am nearly 40....and have maybe about 20 years more to live (with my heavy-drinking and unhealthy-food lifestyle, I doubt I will last beyond 60).....so why am I wasting my time fighting nationalism and racism on the Internet....maybe I should go somewhere far from Turkey, Armenia, Middle East and all these troubled places and enjoy life on a remote island

Oh' it's your choice. When I see nacist armenians i fight them not 'cuz they may hurt ezid, assirian or russian people. They hurt our nation and we mast not be nacist. we must be higher then such things. And how will be turk or kurd don't matter for me Edited October 6, 2006 by Thug

[Armenia_Turkey_peace]

Thug : Well, okay, go ahead and live your 'war fantasies' in your mind every day.

You seem to be happy about hatred continuing between Armenians and Turks. And, you judge people according to their ethnic origin....not according to thier individuality (mindset, character, attitudes). This is sad and annoying !

I am just a human being who just happens to be Turkish. I consider myself a 'human being' before I am 'European', 'Turkish', 'from Istanbul' etc. But, I don't think you can understand my concept of humanity. You are an ultra-nationalist. I am against all nationalists; Turkish, Armenian, Korean or whatever. Nationalism is an ideology based on discrimination.

But anyway, I will continue to have positive feelings towards peace between Turkey and Armenia.

I guess I should exit now from the forum with this last message of mine......Thug's extreme nationalism and silly war fantasies and no one's speaking out against his views have hurt my feelings.

Anyway, all of you (except Thug and others who think like him...I don't want anything to do with such bigoted people) just remember me as a humanist and anti-nationalist Turk who feels very sad about what happened in the past to Armenians.

Cheers and farewell,

Bora

[Thug]

That's easy, Bora, you (maybe) tolerant, me - not

You seem to be happy about hatred continuing between Armenians and Turks

Of course We will live in peace when everything will be OK, and Van lake and Armenian Highland will be our back

I am just a human being who just happens to be Turkish. I consider myself a 'human being' before I am 'European', 'Turkish', 'from Istanbul' etc

And I am Armenian, Armenian, Armenian and nothing else

But anyway, I will continue to have positive feelings towards peace between Turkey and Armenia

You're wasting your time

You are an ultra-nationalist

I'm not ultra-nacinalist

and no one's speaking out against his views have hurt my feelings

most of forumjanners don't speak english Edited October 8, 2006 by Thug

[Thug]

Hello, Bora!

If you're still reading this forum

I think confrontating beween me and you is stupid, and if you wish, we could continue talking, i've some questions for you as a man who lives in Turkey

You may have some questions too, so I'm waiting

[nihalatsız]

The so-called Turkish Bora is probably a non-Turkish Turkish citizen. Here is a real Turc and Turkish racist. I am challenging you. U can debate with me.

<deleted> -- kars

[Kars]

The so-called Turkish Bora is probably a non-Turkish Turkish citizen. Here is a real Turc and Turkish racist. I am challenging you. U can debate with me.

<deleted> -- kars

I am not so sure if anyone would volunteer to debate with you, ”Turkish racist”, but one thing is definitely not subject to debate: NO TURKISH OR OTHER LANGUAGE posts in this forum! (Except the official languages of Hayastan.com forum: Armenian, Russian, English).

Since you are new here and probably didn’t know the rules, you are getting just a verbal warning. Another kind advice: just one racist remark from you, and you’ll be thrown out. OK?

[nihalatsız]

I am not so sure if anyone would volunteer to debate with you, ”Turkish racist”, but one thing is definitely not subject to debate: NO TURKISH OR OTHER LANGUAGE posts in this forum! (Except the official languages of Hayastan.com forum: Armenian, Russian, English).

Since you are new here and probably didn’t know the rules, you are getting just a verbal warning. Another kind advice: just one racist remark from you, and you’ll be thrown out. OK?

First of of all,

I dont care whether or not you throw me out. I'll express my own ideas.

You should know that every Turkish citizen does not have a Turkic origine. For instance, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan(prime minister) is a Georgian emigrant from Batumi. Her wife is an Arab from Siirt. There are so many non-Turkish ministers in the cabinet as well as lots of non-Turkish deputies in the parlement. Turkish Racists(or we call ourselves Turkists) are only a small minority and are constantly supressed. Unfortunately the Turkish majority do not share our ideas due to the fact that they are permanently brain-washed by the islamic fundemantalist, communist and humanist ideas.

Personally I dont make any distinction between Armenians and the others. Every Non-Turkish who wishes to live in the Turkic Territories(Turkey, Northern Azerbaijan, İranian Southern Azerbaijan, West Tracia, Cyprus, Turkmeneli-Kirkuk, Middle Asia, East Turkestan-currently under the Chinese occupation, Tatarstan, Bashkurdistan etc.) should accept the Turkish sovereignty and obey our rules. They may be safe only in one condition. No attempt against their masters.

Secondly, the Persian state shall have been collapsed after the eventual American action . 35 million Azerbaijani Turks will set up their own state under the name of South Azerbaijani Turkish Rebuplic ( the capital of Tabriz). Yet millions of South Azerbaijani Turks are gathering under the leadership of South Azerbaijani Awakening Movement(GAMOH). Thus your new neighbourstate shall be South Azerbaijan. I think this development shall lead to the freedom of West-Azerbaijani Turkic Province(so-called Ermenian fictif state). As you know according to your and impartial sources Erevan and neighbouring provinces were largely dominated by Turks(more than 3/4) till the beginning of this century. Than the choice will be yours. You may live as a Turanic citizen and may enjoy your full-minority rights. Or you may go to the countries like France, USA with whom you have always been allies.

[Kars]

First of of all,

I dont care whether or not you throw me out. I'll express my own ideas.

Of course, you DO care! Otherwise you wouldn’t show up here and put out an invitation for ”debate”.

Secondly: you are welcome to express your own ideas as much as you wish, as long as your postings do not violate the Rules of the Forum. Understood?

Uderstood!

You should know that every Turkish citizen does not have a Turkic origine. For instance, Recep Tayyip […]

Well, everybody knew that already, long before you came up with this brilliant discovery. For instance, Kemal Ataturk had Jewish and Slavic origins, but he is still a Turk – is that what you are trying to say? If that’s what you were trying to say, then you are too naive and too infantile to be taken seriously here.

The rest of your posting is not worth a comment. Grow up, ”Turkish racist”!

[nihalatsız]

Of course, you DO care! Otherwise you wouldn’t show up here and put out an invitation for ”debate”.

Secondly: you are welcome to express your own ideas as much as you wish, as long as your postings do not violate the Rules of the Forum. Understood?

Uderstood!

Well, everybody knew that already, long before you came up with this brilliant discovery. For instance, Kemal Ataturk had Jewish and Slavic origins, but he is still a Turk – is that what you are trying to say? If that’s what you were trying to say, then you are too naive and too infantile to be taken seriously here.

The rest of your posting is not worth a comment. Grow up, ”Turkish racist”!

Nobody gives you the right to insult Atatürk. Ataturk and the other Balcan Turks were settled by the Ottoman Empire during 16. century. The were forced to emigrate by the Ottomans because they were the inhabiters of the Karamanoğulları State. Karamanoğulları State was at that time the greatest rival of the Ottomans. Ottomans toppled this Turkish state at 1466. All the residents were obliged to leave Anatolia. By this action Osmanlı reached two goals. They got rid of their biggest Turkish rivals. Secondly they Turkified partially their new lands.

All the Balcan Turcs have a family tree as Atatürk one possess. We even know the village of his ancestors in Karaman. You calumniate Ataturk as a Jewish. That's a lie of the Islamic fundemantalists who are hostile to Ataturk since he established a secular Turkish state. Thats just a libel and a outrageous allegation. They dared even to say that Atatürk's mother was a ###### who was working in Salonika bordel and his father was unknown.

Do u have any Turkish or foreign scientific information that can prove Ataturk's jewish or slavic origin? Of course not. You hate him since he hindered establishment of an armenian state in East Turkey.

But I may bring you hundreds of sources which will prove that the land of so called artificial Armenian State were inhabited largely by Azerbaijani Turks till the end of the 19. century. Russia armenified West Azerbaijan by settling hundreds thousands of Ottoman Armenians to the lands of Erevan Khanate, Safewids and the Afshars( Historical Shiite Azerbaijani Turkish States). I think before commenting about Ataturk you should search your family tree. You may have Kurdish forefaders. As these two tribes belong to the İranian race(both are dolichesphel-long headed like Black Africans) you may have been mixed with Kurds or Zazas. But ı cant prove that. That resembles your allegation about Ataturk :lol:

[Thug]

Карс, сейчас я за него возьмусь ))

хотя нет, башка не варит, завтра

Hey turk!

Soon dashnaks will come

ps: Карс не обращай на него внимания, он турк. Этот порок врожденный и излечивается только смертью. Не удаляй его, наконец встретили турка на форуме, пусть порасистничает, покажет свою грязную рожу. а то прошлый турк был какой-то ненастоящий пришлосьс ним сюсюкаться

Я врач, лечу их врожденную болезнь

Edited October 28, 2006 by kars

[Kars]

Карс, сейчас я за него возьмусь ))

хотя нет, башка не варит, завтра

Hey turk!

Soon dashnaks will come

ps: Карс не обращай на него внимания, он турк. Этот порок врожденный и излечивается только смертью. Не удаляй его, наконец встретили турка на форуме, пусть порасистничает, покажет свою грязную рожу. а то прошлый турк был какой-то ненастоящий пришлосьс ним сюсюкаться

Я врач, лечу их врожденную болезнь

Thug джан, конечно, не будем пока удалять. Я его тут пасу, не видишь? Вот бы еще и тот другой, «левый», пришел - неплохо бы их столкнуть, пусть всю подноготную рассказывают (хотя ничего нового, наверное, не услышим).

Ты тоже с ним всерьез не спорь - ведь знаешь, что ничего из этого всё равно не выйдет.

[nihalatsız]

[attachmentid=32498]

Карс, сейчас я за него возьмусь ))

хотя нет, башка не варит, завтра

Hey turk!

Soon dashnaks will come

ps: Карс не обращай на него внимания, он турк. Этот порок врожденный и излечивается только смертью. Не удаляй его, наконец встретили турка на форуме, пусть порасистничает, покажет свою грязную рожу. а то прошлый турк был какой-то ненастоящий пришлосьс ним сюсюкаться

Я врач, лечу их врожденную болезнь

Hey dashnak,

Grey Wolfs are coming from Turkey, Northern Azerbaijan, South Azerbaijan(currently under Persian occupation), Borchali-Georgia, Kirkuk-Turkmeneli-Irak,. We shall raise Our Grey Wolf flag on the bastions of historical Turkish town Erevan. Soon u shall leave the occupied North-West Azerbaijan. Hopefully u have a relative in France or US.

Edited October 28, 2006 by kars

[Kars]

Вот видишь, Thug джан, к чему такой тон приводит? Я же говорю, не надо спорить всерьез и вызывать на состязания. Ну кому нужны эти турецкие разглагольствования, которые являются прямым ответом и следствием твоего постинга, и которые уже давно набили оскомину?

[Thug]

hey grey dog

remember Andranik,

history comes back again one day

you're looking around and see turks and destroyed Armenian Churches, one day Armenian Churches will be re-builded, not like this:

and deleting this bas-reliefs:

and at last get this

One day you will see no turkish around, every turk goes to Altay one day

Карс, о чем можно с ним серьезно говорить?

Эти свиньи еще не знают каким тоном с ними надо говорить и где их место

Но намного интереснее, чем с тем либералом

Edited October 28, 2006 by Thug

[Thug]

[Kars]

nihalatsiz, you are temporarily banned from this forum - for numerous violations of the rules, until we decide what to do with you finally. Just relax for a few hours. And do not try to enter under different nickname - your IP will be banned indefinitely if you do so.

[Kars]

If the tendency of recent posts persists (”We’ll do this to you!”, ”We’ll do that to you!”), there’ll be no choice but to close the topic and ask all nationalist and anti-nationalist Armenians and Turks to find something better to do with their spare time.

Looks like you are mature men and yet you don’t notice the infantilism of such dialogs and fail to understand that such exchanges will take you nowhere.

To nihalatsız: you started very aggressively and with obvious hostility. This is not needed in this forum. We try to keep it as placid as possible and we don’t need additional aggravation. As you may imagine, you are not the first Turk with the same attitudes, in this forum. Based on my experience, such guests usually don’t last long. If you have anything to say, say it. But – only within allowed limits. There are Rules to be followed.

Since we don’t yet have the Forum Rules in English, I’ll simply tell you about 2 rules (my gut feeling is telling me that you are most likely to break these two) :

No denial of the Armenian Genocide

No racist remarks

Now I will lift the temporary ban, but with one condition: each and every time you break these rules, your posts will be deleted and your rating will accordingly go up (which actually means ”down”), and eventually I or any other moderator will automatically deny your access to the forum.

And a proposition for Thug: do not provoke or be provoked. You know very well, that if your dialog stays on the same level, it will be shut down very soon. Let's not do it.

Same rules apply to everybody, regardless of nationality. Though (for newcomers): moderators, naturally, may be somewhat more lenient towards the regular participants of this forum than – towards some unknown newcomers with hostile attitudes.

[gungorayar]

Hello, everyone.

I have newly registered.

I am a Turkish guy from Istanbul, Turkey. I want to express my thoughts on the genocide issue and other issues.

As you know, the Turkish governments over the years have denied that a genocide ever happened to Armenians.

However, in recent years, mainly due to the positive effect of EU membership application, freedom of expression sitation has gotten better in Turkey and so a lot of people in Turkey have been able to express their thoughts on various media regarding the genocide. Of course unfortunately some of those peope were taken to court.

The effect of nationalist ideoogy is still strong in Turkey. However I don't think we need to be pessimistic that one day Turkey will at least accept that 'atrocities' happened against the Armenians and at least will offer some kind of apology.

I personally feel very bad about what happened to Armenians back then. The personal stories are really tragic. Not only deaths and injuries but also loss of property and having to leave one's home is very tragic.

Some stuff I learned recently really made me cry.

But please don't blame all Turkish peoeple and don't have a grudge against Turks in general because of what happened back then. Okay, you can rightly have a hard feeling against Turks (and others)who blindly continue to deny what happened and those who say racist things against Armenians.

And one more thing, please don't forget that some people here are not able to have access to some sources and the Internet. They just know what has been taught to them in elementary/secondary school and assume that all is true. Also, over the years, people here have been exposed to nationalist ieology regarding many issues and so they accept all that without questioning it.

I myself am againt ALL types of nationalist ideology, Turkish, Armenian, American, Kenyan or whatever ! Nationalism is a very unhumanist ideology. I continue to fight Turkish (and others) nationalists in some forums and speak out against them. Of course I have become unpopular with many such people because of that

I am also saddened that some people here on this forum praise the terrorist organisation ASALA. I hope humanist Armenians will fight such ideology too.

Armenians should teach their children about what happened BUT must not preach hatred against Turks in general.

I really want good realations between Turkey and Armenia. Hatred should NOT continue. It must stop from both sides. There are already so many bad issues in the world, such as wars, destruction of nature, extinction of many animal species and famine. We humsn beings must strive together to fight such things. There is no place for blind hatred in our world. What good is it going to bring ?

I will give you two examples of racism/discrimination; one from Turks against Armenians and the other from Armenians against Turks. Both these really made me quite sad and angry. In a chat room, one Turkish guy said 'I love all people except Armenians' and then continued his nasty words.

And, then my other example : I planned on going to Armenia last year on holiday and I was doing some research on touristy places. I came across a Web site of a pub in Yerevan. As I was reading some stuff there, in the section about music, it said 'We play all kinds of music, except Turkish music'. That is discrimination extended to culture/music. Very sad !

Of course this put me off from going there. I know that I shouldn't generalise but then, I was just worried what response I might get from people in Armenia just due to my nationality.

I repeat : Nationalism is an ideology that must be fought against.

I know that I might unfortunately attract some bad responses because of what I wrote here (mainly my strong views against nationalism). Anyway, I hope that I won't be insulted here just because I am Turkish.

I actually hope I can contribute to this forum and who knows, I might build some friendship with some people here, and who knows, I might get to meet some people face to face, either in Turkey or in Armenia.

Cheers,

Bora

Bora Kardeş;Bu ve buna benzer forumları incele senin gibi demokrat bulamazsın.Nedense kendini kötüleyen demokrartlar hep bizden çıkar.Senin gibi sözüm ona demokratların sayısı arttıkça biz bu savaşı kaybederiz.Şimdi sana bu forumdan tebrik mesajları gelecek ve sen de gıdanı alacaksın.