Forum Posted May 31, 2002 Report Share Posted May 31, 2002 Georgian TimesMay 27, 2002Terrorist Past of Armenian President?!By Giorgi Kapanadze, GT, TbilisiThe goal of this article is not to place any undeserved blame on theoldest neighbor of Georgia, a nation with great history, that has verylegitimate place in international community. These materials wereobtained by GT from reliable intelligence sources. We hope the articlewill alert the interested parties and we will be able to preventpossible terrorist attack on civilian targets. Prevention of terroristattacks and violent clashes shall be one of the highest priorities inthe region.The GT has obtained the secret information that Armenian terroristorganizations held a meeting in Switzerland in March of the currentyear. At this meeting, the leaders of the terrorist organizationscollected millions of USA dollars to advocate separatism and provideArmenian organizations in Samtske-Javakheti (South-East Georgia, theplace of compact Armenian settlements) with arms to promote an ultimateclaim of Samtske-Javakheti as a part of Armenia.Armenian terrorist organizations are one of the strong, well-armed andaggressive powers not only in post-soviet countries but also in thewhole world. Armenian terrorists have carried out dozens of terroristattacks that left dead or mutilated large numbers of people. Armenianterrorists have killed the diplomats from Turkey, Azerbaijan, GreatBritain, France and other countries. They work actively to restore theterritory of "Historical Armenia" and gather funds in Georgia, amongothers.In the special remarks of the USA State Department in relation to theterrorism and terrorist organizations, we can read:" There is no exactdefinition of Terrorism". To define the terrorism as a concept, one ofthe articles of USA Code is used: "The word "terrorism" implies adeliberate, planned, politically motivated violence against civilians,that is carried out by national groups, the members of the clandestineorganizations and the violence is directed to make influence on thebroad masses of society.The word "international terrorism" means the terrorism where thecitizens of different countries take part in it and it involves theterritories of different countries.The word "terrorist group" means the one that carries out terroristactivity or finances the functioning of these groups."An excerpt from the document of the Security Ministry AntiterroristCenter reads as follows: " The leaders of "Dashnak" organizationsoperating in the different countries met in Switzerland in March. Atthis meeting, the question of uniting Samtskhe-Javakheti with Armeniawas discussed. An agreement has been made at this meeting andaccording to it the "Dashnak" organizations will actively finance anduse "The Fund of Revival of Javakheti" in order to give the region thestatus of Autonomy. Millions of dollars were gathered at this meetingthat will be spent on the propaganda and arms. Arms will be bought inone of the countries of the Middle East to provide them to localresidents and the active "Dashnak" organizations in the region."According to our information, the most powerful organization - theSecret Army of Armenia - is going to launch an armed conflict inSamtskhe-Javakheti."There are many Armenian terrorist organizations, but I don't thinkthere is a real threat coming from them. I have close Armenian friendsin Samtskhe-Javakkheti", stated Avtandil Ioseliani, the head of theGeorgian State Department of Intelligence in conversation with GT.However, his position is quite clear as he can not reveal everythingunlike journalists.The characterization of the "Secret Army of Armenia": The Secret Armyof Armenia is the international ethnic organization based onMarxism-Leninism ideology. It declares solidarity to allextremist-leftist separatist movements. Its main aim is to restore the"historic" Armenia, which, as they claim, includes territories ineastern Turkey, northern Iran and the southern part of Georgia. Theorganization demands from Turkey to recognize the genocide ofArmenians, to recognize themselves guilty and stop the discriminationof the Armenians living in Turkey.In order to realize their aims, Secret Army of Armenia has launched aseries of terrorist attacks, explosions and murders. Its terroristactivity has passed two phases. During the first phase they assaultedthe Turkish facilities and Turkish diplomats to draw attention to theArmenian cause, and support Armenians as such. During the second phase,they started attacking the "imperialistic" objects. According to theobtained documents, the organization fights against the citizens ofthose countries that keep the members of the organization in prison,.The short list of the terrorist attacks carried out by Armenianterrorists:- In 1975, an explosion at the World Council of the Churches in Beirut,the assassination of the Turkish ambassador in Austria, the TurkishAmbassador in France and his driver, the Turkish ambassador in Beirut; alot of explosions in the airports of various different countries,killings of dozens of civilians;- The 1979 bomb explosion in the Diplomatic Services in Madrid killedfive civilians;- In 1980-81, Armenian terrorists carried out few terrorist attacks inGeneva slaying several diplomats, set up a bomb in Madrid victimizingcivilians, assassinated the Turkish attachй and the consul in religionaffairs, arranged an armed attack on the diplomatic institutions andtook 51 civilians as their hostages;- In 1983-84, they set a bomb on the territory of Istanbul market (7dead), took two diplomats hostage in Tehran;- In 1986, an Armenian organization continued taking diplomats ashostages in Lebanon, killed 9 and wounded two of them;- In 1987-91, they attacked French diplomats in Beirut, killing one andwounding two of them; they killed Akop Akopian, the leader of anArmenian terrorist organization. They assaulted several diplomats inHungary, attacked the Esenbogi airport (72 wounded); Armenian terroriststook part in the largest-scaled terrorist attack ever in the history ofParis that left 200 people dead;- In 1990s and at the end of the 20th century, the Armenian terroristorganizations killed about 160 people, attacked various organizations,airports, administrative buildings, diplomatic offices and took dozensof people hostage.The document, which was handed over to us by an employee of the GeorgianIntelligence Service, also stresses that the Armenian terrorism is adestabilizing factor not only to Azerbaijan, but also it threatensGeorgia, Turkey, Western Europe and the US. As far as Georgia isconcerned, several semi-terrorist organizations are operating inJavakheti region that are advocating the idea of unification withArmenia. The Armenian terrorism is financed by the Armenian diasporasregistered in Georgia, Western European countries, Lebanon, France, andthe US. They have dozens of members and are armed with modern weaponry.It must be noted that there is some evidence of Armenian authoritiesallowing these organizations to operate in their country. According tothese allegetions they have harbored the activists that had been soughtafter, and provided them with necessary false identity documents, armsand funds.In Yerevan the campaigns were conducted at the state level to defendthose Armenians who are convicted for carrying out terrorist activities.The foreign born terrorists that relocated to Yerevan first started topersecute local Azeris and forced them out of Yerevan in the end of1980s. In the atmosphere of total psychosis and terror, they have killedover 100 Azeris and 250,000 people of Azeri ethnic origin had to fleeArmenia. Later on, when the whole world became aware of the atrocities,Ter Petrosian, former president of Armenia, attempted to blame theopposition for it.The materials unofficially provided by the antiterrorist center of theSecurity Ministry reveal that the Official Yerevan provides severalterrorist organizations with cutting-edge technology arms, includingmissiles. Armenian government takes responsibility for the 1991terrorist attack carried out in the village Karakent in Azerbaijan(the Khojavesi region). As a result, almost entire government ofAzerbaijan was assasinated: State Minister, Deputy State Minister, thePresident's State Council Chair, General Prosecutor, Head of thePresident's Administration, first deputy Minister of Water andIrrigation, Prosecutor of the Autonomous District of NagornyKarabakh., head of the National Security Department, Head of aDepartment of Ministry of Internal Affairs, Commandant of the NagornyKarabakh, Assistant to State Minister, Journalists and observers fromthe Russian Federation. All these people have died in a missile-hithelicopter crash. The same Armenian terrorists carried out the attacknear Tbilisi. For example, Armenian terrorists exploded the bus goingfrom Tbilisi to Agdam, that resulted in the death of 20 people.After the president Ter Petrosian resigned, the process of therehabilitation of the terrorist organizations has revitilized. Whenthe acting head of the government decided to run for presidentialoffice, as one of his acts of good will he has released the terroristGrant Markarian from the prison. In 1991 he was sent to Karabakh withfalse documents. Markarian and other terrorists such as MonteMelkonian and Vazgen Sislian, were proclaimed as heroes of theKarabakh War. This logically leads us to the conclusion that currentpresident Kocharian, while being the head of the State Committee ofthe Defense Ministry, took part in organizing the terrorist attacks inthe town of Khankendi against the Azeris from that region. The presentleaders of Armenia, including the President, do not conceal that theymaintain close relations with Armenian terrorists.After the horrific and unprecedented September 11 terrorist attack,the US State Department has sent a special note to the Georgiangovernment that says: After the collapse of the Soviet Union and the1993-1995 events made it clear to us that terrorism starts to flourishnot only in Georgia, but in all the Black Sea countries (Turkey,Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, etc.). Taking into consideration thegeopolitical situation of Georgia and the aftermaths of the Abkhazianconflict, we can say that the terrorist organizations now became moreactive and the penetration of Georgia by international terroristorganizations is quite possible. The terrorist acts against theGeorgian officials and the civilians are possible as well. It is aworldwide recognized fact that fighting against terrorism is far moredifficult than fighting against any crime. That's why the fightagainst terrorism in Georgia today makes it necessary to introduce theintegrated approach to this issue.The Armenian terrorist groups are in part run by the Russian specialservices. They strive to take advantage of these groups for their ownpolitical ends. They strive to put Georgia under heavy pressure and tospread Russian influence toward the other countries.To be continued. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Artur Posted May 31, 2002 Report Share Posted May 31, 2002 HmmmIt seems that Azeris found another way of brinning their crap about Armenian terrorism. Once and for all, all the ASALA, ARA and other organizations are totally inactive and all of them split apart long time ago. They've served their purpose of raising the awareness of the Armenian genocide. :exclamation: Moreover, after the september the 11th, it became clear that such organizations are not good for the nation and thus can not be supported! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Forum Posted May 31, 2002 Report Share Posted May 31, 2002 It seems that Azeris found another way of brinning their crap about Armenian terrorism. -----------------------------------------------------------ia toje imenno eto podazrevaiy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Меркурий Posted June 1, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2002 Просто хорошо заплатили журналисту.Дело не в том что пишит этот журналист. Дело в том, что грузинские власти никак не реагируют. Плюс повысили тарифы на нашы товары, которые будут проезжать через Грузию. А тарифи на азербайджанские товары остались прежними( намного ниже чем на нашы). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Artur Posted June 6, 2002 Report Share Posted June 6, 2002 A vot i otvet...Автандил Иоселиани не делал "Georgian Times" заявлений об армянских террористических организацияхРуководитель госдепартамента разведки Автандил Иоселиани заявляет, что в интервью "Georgian Times" он не говорил о "существовании армянских террористических организаций, от которых, однако, реальной угрозы не усматривает".Как сообщает "Прайм Ньюс", 27 мая в русскоязычной версии газеты "Georgian Times" под заголовком "Армянский терроризм угрожает миру" была опубликована статья, в которой было приведено это высказывание председателя госдепартамента разведки Грузии. Как отмечается в заявлении, распространенном в среду госдепартаментом разведки, "эта ссылка - абсолютная ложь, поскольку Автандил Иоселиани подобного заявления газете "Georgian Times" не делал". В то же время, как отмечается в заявлении, "такого абзаца нет в грузинской версии "Georgian Times". Здесь приведены следующие слова Автандила Иоселиани: "Если не вмешается третья сила, разжигание этнических конфликтов армянами и азербайджанцами в этом случае будет исключено". Автандил Иоселиани там же заявил, что "не обладает официальными сведениями по поводу того, что кто-то желает поставить вопрос автономии Самцхе-Джавахетии". "Газета не должна способствовать возникновению недоразумений между двумя братскими народами", - отмечается в заявлении госдепартамента разведки Грузии. Hayastan.comS lenti AZG Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iberieli Posted June 7, 2002 Report Share Posted June 7, 2002 Privet vsem,Kak vy davno zametili, na segodnyashnii den ochen mnogo provokatornyx zayavlenii. Obidno to chto v etom uchavstvuyut kak i segodnyaschie nashi(imeyu vidu Gruziyu) soyuzniki tak i predstaviteli na vremya ne soyuznyx gosudarstv.Obidno to chto kontekst svoix rechei oni ili umyshlenno ili ot svoego legkomyslia vybirayut. Ya zaxodil na Aztop.com, i posetil ixnii forum. k sajelnyu bez provokatsii tam toje ne obxodyatsa. Navernoe est lyudi kotorye jivut toko radi togo chtoby nesti vsyakyu chuj ( dje esli im za eto ne plotyat).Nu provokatory jili i k neschastyu navernoe esche dolgo budut jit', vajno ne eto, vajno to chto vputyvat' narod v takix zayavlenyax ochen ne razymno.Nu a tak druzya, nam ne pryvikat', zayavlenya budut raznye i v buduschem, nado prosto umet chitat ix pravilno. Nadeyus vy sogalsny so mnoi.A tak jelayu vsem vsm mira, on nam vsem nujen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Artur Posted June 8, 2002 Report Share Posted June 8, 2002 Pravil'no, iberieli.Samoe glavnoe ne poddovatsya na eti provokacii. Odin Bog znaet na skol'ko blizki mi istoricheski. S Ego voli mi reshim nashi problemi vmeste... Hayastan.com za ukreplenie otnosheniy dvux bratskix narodov! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Меркурий Posted June 8, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2002 Хорошо было бы если и вашы руководители так думали. Ксажалению это далеко не так. :confused: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iberieli Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 Хорошо было бы если и вашы руководители так думали. Ксажалению это далеко не так. :confused:Malenkoe utochnenie ( nu a tak pobolshomu soglasen),Xorosho bylo by esli i u nashyx i u vashyx, jelanie sovpodali by s vozmojnostyami. Togda by u nas u vsex nikakix problem ne bylo by. A tak ya dumayu chto oni (politiki) dumat' to dumayut no vot na dele im trudno chto nibud pokazat, poskolku najim slishkom bolshoi so storony. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Меркурий Posted June 10, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 Наше госсударство все делает для того чтоб наладить хорошые отнашения с вами. А ваше??? :bored: Ваше ксажалению нечего. И если захотеть, то невкто не может давить на вас. Думаеш на нас не давят?Госсударственые интересы превыше всего.А для интерсеов двух нашых госсударств надо чтоб мы были союзникоми. И дружили не только народ, но и госсударства. В противном случяи может быть госс. сделают так, что и народ не будет дружить. :confused: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iberieli Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 predlagayu zakryt etu temu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aram Posted June 20, 2002 Report Share Posted June 20, 2002 А на фиг грузинам дружить с нами? Вековое соседство и историческую дружбу ведь на хлеб не намажешь и в карман не положишь. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vaspur Posted June 20, 2002 Report Share Posted June 20, 2002 a jesli s druzjami ne budesh druzhit,to ostaneshsja s palcem v zh...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Меркурий Posted June 20, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2002 А на фиг грузинам дружить с нами? Вековое соседство и историческую дружбу ведь на хлеб не намажешь и в карман не положишь.Арам джан мы должны дружить потому что мы соседи, в Грузии большая армянская община, мы христиане, у нас общие цели и интересы( не по тактическим понятиям а по стратегическим). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aram Posted June 20, 2002 Report Share Posted June 20, 2002 Я то понимаю, что мы должны дружить, но им то зачем это? Дружбу народов :bigsmile: я понимаю, но дружбу государств??? Где это Вы видели? Есть интерес и все. А что мы можем предложить? Вековые связи??? Древнее происхождение??? Одну и ту же веру??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iberieli Posted June 20, 2002 Report Share Posted June 20, 2002 xitryi ty chelovek Aram jan ;-) ya prinimayu tvoi vyzov "Вековое соседство и историческую дружбу ведь на хлеб не намажешь "- odnako byli vremena mazali axper jan, i ne dai bog nam vsem neschastya i seichas namajem. drujba narodov ( nastoyaschaya) i yavlyaesta osnovoi drujby mejdu gosudarst. Nu a tak severnaya i yujnaya Korea toje ne drujat ."Я то понимаю, что мы должны дружить, но им то зачем это? " nu ty tut uje interesno govorish . Ty chto eto seryozno?'А что мы можем предложить? Вековые связи??? Древнее происхождение??? Одну и ту же веру???'-etogo predlogat nikamu ne nado, eto i tak podrazumyvaetsa. My mojem mnogoe predlojit drug drugu ( takoe toje chto mojno budet i "v karman polojit i na xleb namazat"), esli etogo nam dadut sdelat. No esli budut meshat to nado vse ravno staratsa.Nu a tak Vaspur i Merkuri tebe otvetili.smotri ne shuti bolshe tak :sneaky: ;-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Меркурий Posted June 21, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2002 Ну Арам джан если мои доводы для тебя нечего не значат........что могу сказать.........незнаю даже что тебе сказать.Ты просто любишь спорить ради спора. :confused: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aram Posted June 21, 2002 Report Share Posted June 21, 2002 xitryi ty chelovek Aram jan ;-)СПАСИБО за комплимент. А вызов я не бросаю. Просто волею судеб я бывал в Грузии по 10 раз в месяц, бывало и проживал тампо паре тройке месяцев. Проучился там в школе 3 года. Огромная куча друзей. Настоящих друзей. Родсвеники. Мой двоюродный дядя грузин. Так что про грузин я ничего плохого сказать не могу. Только и исключительно хорошее. Это на человеческом уровне. А вот на государственом, там где мне приходилось сталкиваться с государством это.... Я могу приводить пример за примером. И я пойму если ко всем так. Но ... Я даже нанимал своего соседа, у него машина с бакинскими! номерами была, так мне было проще по Грузии что нибудь перевозить. Это на простом бытовом уровне. На сегодняшний день я уже 2 года не был в Грузии и могу следить только по прессе и по своим друзям- родственикам. Могу лишь привести факт, что когда моего родного! дядю лишили работы- директор- очень близкий друг нашей семьи позвал его извинился и сказал, что не его винаЮ, а пришла телега от кого то- якобы армянин работает, а почему не грузин. Это 100% факт. Но это тоже фигня, это бытовуха. Грузины отличнейшие ребята, я и в Москве с ними дружу. Но есть государство и оно вынуждено вести политику. Я абсолютноне могу обвинять, поскольку любой бы наверное поступил так же. Если выгоднее дружить с Турцией, значить будут дружить с ней. И влучшем случае с Арменией удасться сохранить нейтралитет, пока Армения так же чего то не предложит. Пока что предложить нечего. Действительно нечего. Это простой бизнес- Грузия сейчас монополист на дороге из Армении- и это грех этим не воспользоваться. А куда мы на фиг денемся. Я с удовольствием почитаю ЧТО МЫ МОЖЕМ ВАМ ПРЕДЛОЖИТЬ такого, что вам действительно нужно. Я прошу не путать человеческие(отличные )отношения и межгосударственые. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aram Posted June 21, 2002 Report Share Posted June 21, 2002 Ну Арам джан если мои доводы для тебя нечего не значат........что могу сказать.........незнаю даже что тебе сказать.Ты просто любишь спорить ради спора. :confused:А кто сказал что я с тобой спорю? У меня свое мнение которое я высказал, которое кстати повторяет твое,- могу привести выдержки из твоих же постов Я же не против дружить и с грузинами и с Грузией, и грузины с нами хотят дружить, но дружба между государствами??? Мне кажется это исключено, есть расчет и только. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Меркурий Posted June 22, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2002 Ты прав. Я постировал и постирую именно такие посты.Но я и постирую такое, что Грузия действует по тактическим понятием. Ксажелению Шеви не может мыслить шире, т.е. действовать по стратегическим соображениям. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aram Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 Мне кажется, что кто бы не был на месте Ш. делал бы так же. Потому как это выгодно Грузии. Он же должен исходить из интересов Грузии, ане Армении. Хотя я по моему моя мысль созвучна твоей. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Меркурий Posted June 24, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 Арам джан по тактическим понятиям он прав, а чуть дальше нет!Я говорью о пользе Грузии а не Армении.А в целом это выгодно обеим госс. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aram Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 К моему великому сожалению президент Грузии он, а не ты! :unhappy: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Меркурий Posted June 24, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 К моему великому сожалению президент Грузии он, а не ты! :unhappy:Арам джан я уверен, что в Грузии есть и более дальновидные политики.Президентом..................... если Армении, то после 35 могу балатироваться. ;-) Во всяком случяи буду работать надо мной. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iberieli Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 da my tut okazyvaetsa s buduschim prezidentom imeem delo :)Nu jealyu udachi Merkuri. Mojet esche vstretimsya Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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