Kurdistan Is De Facto Independant!

[Aram.Garabedian2]

No matter what Turkey thinks, sooner or Later, it will loose Norther Kurdistan too...

You just can't keep control over 20 million Kurds having a State next dorr!

http://www.djavakhk.com/galerie/disp_img.php?id_img=1304

[Tanatossss]

No matter what Turkey thinks, sooner or Later, it will loose Norther Kurdistan too...

You just can't keep control over 20 million Kurds having a State next dorr!

http://www.djavakhk.com/galerie/disp_img.php?id_img=1304

Do you think that's good for us?

[Aram.Garabedian2]

The Question is not, wheter it is Good or Bad.

This is a fact.

We would better realise it, and prepare for the next steps, to have the best for us.

But for that, we must know what we want, and accordingly, what we need to do.

It is a fact, in 25 years, we will have a Kurdish state a s a Neigbor. Wheter it will be in Kars and Igdir, or in Diyarbekir and Malatia, depends greatly on us, too...!!!

[Tanatossss]

Yes the situation is of a kind that we really can take some advantage of it..But our government has to be extremely clever for tht..But in general the fact that instead of one even so strong opponent we'll have to struggle against two doesn't please me honestly

[Thug]

Пусть курды создают себе независимые государства, хоть 100, но не на Армянском Нагорье!!!

Пусть хоть в тегеране, тебризе, анкаре или константинополе...

[Aram.Garabedian2]

Пусть курды создают себе независимые государства, хоть 100, но не на Армянском Нагорье!!!

Пусть хоть в тегеране, тебризе, анкаре или константинополе...

http://www.djavakhk.com/cartes.php?l=fr

Map of Eternal Armenia

Peace = Justice = Liberation of Land

[Aram.Garabedian2]

test could be deleted

NEITHER ARABIC LANGUAGE, FLAG NOR POLITICAL ISLAM IN SOUTH KURDISTAN

By Kamal Rajab

KurdishMedia.UK

9/14/2006 KurdishMedia.com

Today the majority of Kurds are officially Muslim, belonging to

the Shafi School, and to a much lesser degree, the Hannafi School ,

both of Sunni Islam.

There is also a significant minority of Kurds that are Shiaa Muslims,

primarily living in the Ilam and Kermanshah provinces of Iran and

Central Iraq ("Al-Fayliah" Kurds). The Alevis are another religious

minority among the Kurds, mainly found in Turkey.

According to some claims, Kurds are also thought to be a kind of angel

worship that is an offshoot of Zoroastrianism. Today it is called

Yezidism and is only practiced by about 700,000 Kurds worldwide. It

is not strictly monotheistic, thus our Yezidis brethren have suffered

terribly under fanatical Muslims. In line with its belief in people of

the Book, Islam does not recognize Yezidism as a religion. Moreover,

the negative view of Muslims with regard to the Angel Peacock--who in

the religion of the Yezidis is second only to God--has been the cause

of conflict between Muslims and Yezidis for a thousand years or more.

Many Kurdish Jews and Christians have lived (and many Christians

still do live) in Kurdish areas.

Historically, there have been Christian converts among Kurds since

the 5th century. Nonetheless, today most insist that their ethnic

identity is "Christian," not Kurdish. Pockets of Assyrian, Nestorian

(Jacobite Syrian-Orthodox, Armenian, and very few Protestant Christians

still live in the Kurdish areas today.

By the passage of time, Kurdistan has been exposed to a range of

political, socio-religious and geographical adjustments. But there is

one distinctive verity that most Kurds have in common. And that is

the principle of having practiced Zoroastrianism before the spread

of Islam in the 7th century CE, which is believed to be one of the

oldest religions in the world. Hence, our pre-Islamic religion must

be Zoroastrianism. It is easier for Kurds, the majority of whom are

Muslim, to accept the belief that their pre-Islamic religion was

Zoroastrianism rather than any other religious conviction.

The Islam religion started with Mohammad in the 7th century, in Saudi

Arabia of today. Mohammad included in Islam the idea of jihad (holy

war) to spread Islam by the use of force. Islam was spread rapidly

to all the Arab nations of North Africa and the Middle East.

Having fallen in to the hands of the Arab nations, Islam turned

into an apparatus of Arab nationalism and xenophobia. As lucid,

many Arab extremists are critical of Western influence and seek a

return to the authentic roots of their own traditions. Others - and

extremely small minority - are radical Islamic fundamentalists who

have stepped over the line from extremist rhetoric into the world of

political violence. What is an undeniable truth is that most Muslim

Arabs share an intense hatred of Western nations in general, and the

United States in particular. This hatred is fueled by blind religious

zeal, a fundamentalist interpretation of Islam that is not accepted

by the vast majority of the Muslim world, and the belief that the US

and Americans prevent the emergence of pure and true Islamic society

in many parts of the world. Their primary goals are to force the US

to end its involvement in the Middle East and in all other Arab and

Muslim nations, abandon its support of Israel, and stop its support

of Arab nations they perceive as "corrupt." This is exactly in total

contradiction with Kurdish civilization, philosophy and religion.

Meanwhile, many of us "hold our Islam lightly," meaning that we are

not so vehement about Islam and do not identify as closely with it as

the Arabs do. This is perhaps due to several factors: one being, many

of us still feel some connection with the ancient Zoroastrian faith,

and feel it as an original Kurdish spirituality that far predates

the seventh century AD arrival of Muhammad.

Being a member of the Indo-European family of languages, we are

totally distinct from the Arabs, Turks, and Persians (Iranians)

of their region.

The name "Kurd" was a generic term used to denote nomads and

non-Arabs in particular. In Kurdish, the name "Kurd" means "warrior"

or "ferocious fighter." We are the modern descendents of the Medes,

who are mentioned in the Bible. The Kurds are the descendants of

the Medes, who helped Persia defeat Babylon. The Kurdish belief

that they are the descendants of the biblical Medes reflects this

rich background. Basing this claim on geographical, linguistic and

cultural factors, this claim is ascribed more.

History well lets slip the facts that "the earliest known evidence of

a unified and distinct culture (and possibly, ethnicity) by people

inhabiting the Kurdish mountains dates back to the Halaf culture

of 8,000 - 7,400 years ago. This was followed by the spread of the

Ubaidian culture, which was a foreign introduction from Mesopotamia. In

the 8th century we were conquered by the Arabs, who introduce Islam. We

were also subdued by the Mongols in the 11th century and later by the

Ottoman Turks, under whose rule they remained until the collapse of

the Ottoman Empire following World War I".

Other than through intermarriage over the centuries, we are

not ethnically and linguistically close or related to Arabs or

Turks. Arabs, who form the majority in Syria and Iraq, came during

the 7th century, the period of Islamic expansion, from the Saudi

Arabian Peninsula.

Arabic language in South Kurdistan

Even though Arabic is a sacred religion language to Muslims around the

world, Ninety percent of the world's Muslims do not speak Arabic as

their native language Arabic and Islam are complementary and mutually

reinforcing. Arabization and Islamization are inseparable parts of a

single cultural ideal that now pervades the Arab world. Every Arab

government, regardless of its political or social character, uses

the symbolic power of the Arab language in its drive toward national

modernization, authentication, and uniformization. All of them see

the Arabization of society, particularly the educational system, as

crucial to their mission. This leads, however, to an unexpected irony:

because Arabs draw so close a connection between classical Arabic and

the faith of Islam, Arabization invariably leads to identification

with the (supranational) Islamic religious tradition.

Even the most secular Arab nationalist (such as the Ba`thist variants

in Syria and Iraq) must appeal to Islamic symbolism to bolster

sagging legitimacy and to mobilize the masses (as Saddam Hussein

did in his wars against Iran and the U.S.-led coalition). Hence,

Arab nationalism has, however inadvertently, contributed to the rise

of Islamism. Indeed, today's Islamist surge is the natural, perhaps

inevitable consequence of the Arab nationalist policies of thirty

years ago.

We must enhance our cultural and linguistic national personality;

but no, we must not allow it to deprive us of the power of universal

scientific knowledge. It is only extremist Islamists and extremists

who are able to escape such wavering and adopt firm, unequivocal

stances for or against Arabization/Islamization.

We are in need of implementing a foreign language curriculum that can

further improve intellectual skills, helps our students understand

the customs, culture and literature of other societies, and allows

them to better trace their roots. Knowledge of a foreign language

contributes to international understanding of issues and greatly

increases career opportunities for our Kurdish scholars. At present,

proficiency in foreign languages is much in demand in government,

business, industry and research. And this is an indispensable fact

having been adopted by the nations of the world.

An estimated 300-400 million people speak English as their first

language. One recent estimate is that 1.9 billion people, nearly a

third of the world's population, have a basic proficiency in English.

English is the dominant international language in communications,

science, business, aviation, entertainment, diplomacy and the

Internet. It has been one of the official languages of the United

Nations since its founding in 1945.

Another key language is French. French is spoken by 71 million

people in France and other 24 countries which include Canada

and Belgium. French is also the official language of a number of

International organizations, among which EU, NATO and UN.

There is no incentive for Kurds to totally not eradicate Arabic

language, culture and legacy in South Kurdistan and reinstate it with

a modern and internationally recognized democratic foundation.

Some facts about the Arabization policy in South Kurdistan

Attempts to Arabize instructions in Kurdistan were one of the primary

goals of previous dictator regime. The educational system of South

Kurdistan has gone under qualitative and quantitative changes.

The Education system in Kurdistan, prior to 1991, was one of the

most backward in the region. The Higher Education, especially the

scientific and technological institutions

The majority of Kurdistan institutions of higher education were burnt,

looted, or destroyed.

Kurdistan's educational system was the target of Iraqi military action,

because education is the backbone of any society. Without an efficient

education system, no society can function. Schools and universities

were bombed and destroyed.

The previous Iraq's school curriculum was a Baathist -crafted

curriculum In a callous and murderous policy termed "Baathification",

thousands of Kurdish academics, scientists and prominent were executed.

Iraq strategy against Kurdistan went beyond "strictly military

targets". The aim was the complete destruction of the Kurdistan

society and its knowledge-based resources.

In the wake of US liberation of Iraq, Kurdistan's educational systems

are expected to match with the finest in the Middle East .

After the 'Gulf War', 95 per cent of all Kurdistan school age children

are attending school. Attendance at school has gone high in Kurdistan

as primary education is being compulsory.

There are successful government programs under way aimed at eradicating

illiteracy among Kurdish men and women.

[Aram.Garabedian2]

NEITHER ARABIC LANGUAGE, FLAG NOR POLITICAL ISLAM IN SOUTH KURDISTAN

By Kamal Rajab

KurdishMedia.UK

9/14/2006 KurdishMedia.com

Today the majority of Kurds are officially Muslim, belonging to

the Shafi School, and to a much lesser degree, the Hannafi School ,

both of Sunni Islam.

There is also a significant minority of Kurds that are Shiaa Muslims,

primarily living in the Ilam and Kermanshah provinces of Iran and

Central Iraq ("Al-Fayliah" Kurds). The Alevis are another religious

minority among the Kurds, mainly found in Turkey.

According to some claims, Kurds are also thought to be a kind of angel

worship that is an offshoot of Zoroastrianism. Today it is called

Yezidism and is only practiced by about 700,000 Kurds worldwide. It

is not strictly monotheistic, thus our Yezidis brethren have suffered

terribly under fanatical Muslims. In line with its belief in people of

the Book, Islam does not recognize Yezidism as a religion. Moreover,

the negative view of Muslims with regard to the Angel Peacock--who in

the religion of the Yezidis is second only to God--has been the cause

of conflict between Muslims and Yezidis for a thousand years or more.

Many Kurdish Jews and Christians have lived (and many Christians

still do live) in Kurdish areas.

Historically, there have been Christian converts among Kurds since

the 5th century. Nonetheless, today most insist that their ethnic

identity is "Christian," not Kurdish. Pockets of Assyrian, Nestorian

(Jacobite Syrian-Orthodox, Armenian, and very few Protestant Christians

still live in the Kurdish areas today.

By the passage of time, Kurdistan has been exposed to a range of

political, socio-religious and geographical adjustments. But there is

one distinctive verity that most Kurds have in common. And that is

the principle of having practiced Zoroastrianism before the spread

of Islam in the 7th century CE, which is believed to be one of the

oldest religions in the world. Hence, our pre-Islamic religion must

be Zoroastrianism. It is easier for Kurds, the majority of whom are

Muslim, to accept the belief that their pre-Islamic religion was

Zoroastrianism rather than any other religious conviction.

The Islam religion started with Mohammad in the 7th century, in Saudi

Arabia of today. Mohammad included in Islam the idea of jihad (holy

war) to spread Islam by the use of force. Islam was spread rapidly

to all the Arab nations of North Africa and the Middle East.

Having fallen in to the hands of the Arab nations, Islam turned

into an apparatus of Arab nationalism and xenophobia. As lucid,

many Arab extremists are critical of Western influence and seek a

return to the authentic roots of their own traditions. Others - and

extremely small minority - are radical Islamic fundamentalists who

have stepped over the line from extremist rhetoric into the world of

political violence. What is an undeniable truth is that most Muslim

Arabs share an intense hatred of Western nations in general, and the

United States in particular. This hatred is fueled by blind religious

zeal, a fundamentalist interpretation of Islam that is not accepted

by the vast majority of the Muslim world, and the belief that the US

and Americans prevent the emergence of pure and true Islamic society

in many parts of the world. Their primary goals are to force the US

to end its involvement in the Middle East and in all other Arab and

Muslim nations, abandon its support of Israel, and stop its support

of Arab nations they perceive as "corrupt." This is exactly in total

contradiction with Kurdish civilization, philosophy and religion.

Meanwhile, many of us "hold our Islam lightly," meaning that we are

not so vehement about Islam and do not identify as closely with it as

the Arabs do. This is perhaps due to several factors: one being, many

of us still feel some connection with the ancient Zoroastrian faith,

and feel it as an original Kurdish spirituality that far predates

the seventh century AD arrival of Muhammad.

Being a member of the Indo-European family of languages, we are

totally distinct from the Arabs, Turks, and Persians (Iranians)

of their region.

The name "Kurd" was a generic term used to denote nomads and

non-Arabs in particular. In Kurdish, the name "Kurd" means "warrior"

or "ferocious fighter." We are the modern descendents of the Medes,

who are mentioned in the Bible. The Kurds are the descendants of

the Medes, who helped Persia defeat Babylon. The Kurdish belief

that they are the descendants of the biblical Medes reflects this

rich background. Basing this claim on geographical, linguistic and

cultural factors, this claim is ascribed more.

History well lets slip the facts that "the earliest known evidence of

a unified and distinct culture (and possibly, ethnicity) by people

inhabiting the Kurdish mountains dates back to the Halaf culture

of 8,000 - 7,400 years ago. This was followed by the spread of the

Ubaidian culture, which was a foreign introduction from Mesopotamia. In

the 8th century we were conquered by the Arabs, who introduce Islam. We

were also subdued by the Mongols in the 11th century and later by the

Ottoman Turks, under whose rule they remained until the collapse of

the Ottoman Empire following World War I".

Other than through intermarriage over the centuries, we are

not ethnically and linguistically close or related to Arabs or

Turks. Arabs, who form the majority in Syria and Iraq, came during

the 7th century, the period of Islamic expansion, from the Saudi

Arabian Peninsula.

Arabic language in South Kurdistan

Even though Arabic is a sacred religion language to Muslims around the

world, Ninety percent of the world's Muslims do not speak Arabic as

their native language Arabic and Islam are complementary and mutually

reinforcing. Arabization and Islamization are inseparable parts of a

single cultural ideal that now pervades the Arab world. Every Arab

government, regardless of its political or social character, uses

the symbolic power of the Arab language in its drive toward national

modernization, authentication, and uniformization. All of them see

the Arabization of society, particularly the educational system, as

crucial to their mission. This leads, however, to an unexpected irony:

because Arabs draw so close a connection between classical Arabic and

the faith of Islam, Arabization invariably leads to identification

with the (supranational) Islamic religious tradition.

Even the most secular Arab nationalist (such as the Ba`thist variants

in Syria and Iraq) must appeal to Islamic symbolism to bolster

sagging legitimacy and to mobilize the masses (as Saddam Hussein

did in his wars against Iran and the U.S.-led coalition). Hence,

Arab nationalism has, however inadvertently, contributed to the rise

of Islamism. Indeed, today's Islamist surge is the natural, perhaps

inevitable consequence of the Arab nationalist policies of thirty

years ago.

We must enhance our cultural and linguistic national personality;

but no, we must not allow it to deprive us of the power of universal

scientific knowledge. It is only extremist Islamists and extremists

who are able to escape such wavering and adopt firm, unequivocal

stances for or against Arabization/Islamization.

We are in need of implementing a foreign language curriculum that can

further improve intellectual skills, helps our students understand

the customs, culture and literature of other societies, and allows

them to better trace their roots. Knowledge of a foreign language

contributes to international understanding of issues and greatly

increases career opportunities for our Kurdish scholars. At present,

proficiency in foreign languages is much in demand in government,

business, industry and research. And this is an indispensable fact

having been adopted by the nations of the world.

An estimated 300-400 million people speak English as their first

language. One recent estimate is that 1.9 billion people, nearly a

third of the world's population, have a basic proficiency in English.

English is the dominant international language in communications,

science, business, aviation, entertainment, diplomacy and the

Internet. It has been one of the official languages of the United

Nations since its founding in 1945.

Another key language is French. French is spoken by 71 million

people in France and other 24 countries which include Canada

and Belgium. French is also the official language of a number of

International organizations, among which EU, NATO and UN.

There is no incentive for Kurds to totally not eradicate Arabic

language, culture and legacy in South Kurdistan and reinstate it with

a modern and internationally recognized democratic foundation.

Some facts about the Arabization policy in South Kurdistan

Attempts to Arabize instructions in Kurdistan were one of the primary

goals of previous dictator regime. The educational system of South

Kurdistan has gone under qualitative and quantitative changes.

The Education system in Kurdistan, prior to 1991, was one of the

most backward in the region. The Higher Education, especially the

scientific and technological institutions

The majority of Kurdistan institutions of higher education were burnt,

looted, or destroyed.

Kurdistan's educational system was the target of Iraqi military action,

because education is the backbone of any society. Without an efficient

education system, no society can function. Schools and universities

were bombed and destroyed.

The previous Iraq's school curriculum was a Baathist -crafted

curriculum In a callous and murderous policy termed "Baathification",

thousands of Kurdish academics, scientists and prominent were executed.

Iraq strategy against Kurdistan went beyond "strictly military

targets". The aim was the complete destruction of the Kurdistan

society and its knowledge-based resources.

In the wake of US liberation of Iraq, Kurdistan's educational systems

are expected to match with the finest in the Middle East .

After the 'Gulf War', 95 per cent of all Kurdistan school age children

are attending school. Attendance at school has gone high in Kurdistan

as primary education is being compulsory.

There are successful government programs under way aimed at eradicating

illiteracy among Kurdish men and women.

[nihalatsız]

No matter what Turkey thinks, sooner or Later, it will loose Norther Kurdistan too...

You just can't keep control over 20 million Kurds having a State next dorr!

http://www.djavakhk.com/galerie/disp_img.php?id_img=1304

[nihalatsız]

DEMOGRAPHICS

Information regarding the Turkoman demographics has been kept secret for various reasons by the Iraqi administration. In accordance with the state’s assimilation policies no realistic and independent census results have been revealed regarding the Iraqi Turkoman population like the other ethnic groups. So far a census has been carried out five times in Iraq.

In the census carried out in 1947 the population of Kirkuk was 286.005 (5.9 % of total population), in the 1957 census 388.939 (6 % of total population), 473.626 (5.8 of total population) in the 1965 census, 495.425 (4.15 % of total population) in the 1977 census (during 1975-1977 the Kirkuk area was reduced from 19.543 km to 9.426 km). After the 17 October 1987 census was carried out the Iraqi officials only disclosed the general population as 16 million.

Because of the attitude of the Iraqi authorities all the statistical information published so far have consisted of unrealistic numbers; the ratio of Turkish residents has been shown as 2 %. That is why all the research and publications prepared by foreign researchers has been based on this false information available as research sources and especially encyclopedias. The interesting part is the fact that the calculations regarding the Turkoman population have been carried out amateurishly. Effort has been lavished to ignore a living entity. A simple mathematical equation is enough to refute the administrations claims with the information published by the Iraqı Minister of Planning.

According to the statistical estimates made in 1981 the total population of provinces populated by Turkoman was 3.467.269 which distributes as follows: 1.227.25 in Mosul, 402.067 in Selahattin, 567.957 in Kirkuk, 637.778 in Diala and 632.252 in Arbil. According to the same estimates the total population of Iraq was 13.669.689. Since the ratio of Turks in Iraq is 2% according to Iraqi publications, the number of Turks in the region of 3.467.269 was merely 273.393 which means that there is a ratio of 7.88 % in the area. In other words this means that out of every 100 persons in the provinces of Iraq populated by Turks only 8 are of Turkish origin. However, on touring the region, it is immediately obvious how far from the truth this number is. In fact it would be more truthful to claim the opposite in some provinces. It is a known fact that until the 1960’s 95 % of the population of Kirkuk was Turkish. However, in line with the Arabization policies carried out thereafter, tens of thousands of Arab families were settled into Kirkuk. In addition to this, the demolishing of Kurdish villages in the surrounding provinces contributed to the migration of the Kurds into Kirkuk. This is why the overwhelming Turkish majority in Kirkuk was reduced from 95 % to 75 % in the 1980’s.

If we calculate the average ratio of the population of Kirkuk with Iraq’s total population during the 40 year period from 1947 to 1987 we come up with the figure 5.19 %. This means that when the total population determined by the 1987 census is compared with Kirkuk’s population the figure should be 830.400. If the 75 % ratio is used to calculate the estimated Turkish population the result is 622.800. If the ratio is calculated according to the 1981 statistics (4.15 %) the figure is 664.000; if the ratio is calculated according to 75 % the number is 498.000 which means that the 2 % claim made by Iraq is not only discredited in the example of Kirkuk province, but also in the whole region.

Our claim is supported by a statistical calculation. It was determined in the 1957 census carried out during the Monarchy that 500.000 Turkoman were resident in Iraq and the census data published in 1959 displayed the figure as 567.000. According to calculations made, the annual population growth rate in Iraq is 3.296 %. Using the year 1959 as basis the number of Turkoman living in Iraq in 1994 is found as: n P1 = P0 ( 1+t) 35 P1 = 567.000 (1+0.03296) P1 = 1.764.029, which is a different method to discredit Iraq’s claims. No matter how hard the past administrations and the present regime have tried to conceal and minimize the Turkish population, the approximate total of the 300.000 strong Turkoman population living in the provinces of Kirkuk, Arbil, Mosul, the districts and villages of Selahattin and Diyala and Baghdad is proof that even the most pessimistic estimate places the Turkoman population well over two million.

Settlement Situation

The Turkoman who have been present in Iraq well over a thousand years, live in the center of the northern part of the country. Today the Turkoman are spread within the borders of Mosul, Arbil, Kirkuk, Diyala and Selahattin provinces and a few boroughs of the capital city Baghdad.

During the English occupation, W.R.Hay who was the political governor of Arbil at the time wrote in a book about the region: " There are some cities along a certain zone. The residents of these cities speak Turkish. This zone separates the mainly Kurdish region from the mainly Arab region. Kirkuk is a center densely populated by Turks. Before the First World War the population was 30.000. There are many villages in the vicinity of the city, where Turkish is spoken.”

In another area in the book the author writes; "Two important separate settlement areas worth mentioning in which Turkish is spoken are Arbil and Altunköprü. The latter is an island on the Küçük Zap river. The shores of the river are connected with two bridges ".

Al-Haydari writes in his book “Renovation of Arbil Castle” published by the General Directorate of Culture and Youth which is connected to the Autonomous region in Iraq: " (….) During the last period (Ottoman period) the Castle was the central district of Arbil’s well to do. " When describing the Castle he says: "The Arbil Castle remains in the center of the city consisting of three residential boroughs. These three boroughs are Saray in the east, Tophane in the southwest and Tekke in the northwest (...)" which plainly displays the Turkish side of Arbil (Turkish names).

Hüseyin Fadıl portrays Turkish settlement areas Kirkuk, Arbil etc. in his book " Mosul Problem" as follows; "(….) The Commission has determined that the settlers of these cities are originally Turkish. The most popular people here are the Turks. They speak Turkish within the family circle. The Commission has also determined that 5 of the muktar (headmen) in Arbil are Turkish, 1 muktar is half Turkish, half Kurdish and 1 muktar is Jewish. In addition it has been determined that the only newspaper printed in Kirkuk under the supervision of the administration is in Turkish and all official correspondence is carried out in Arabic and Turkish. The Commission also determined that the English political officer spoke Turkish, while he had no knowledge of Arabic or Kurdish. This same Commission also determined that Altunköprü was actually Turkish, with the exception of some Jewish families Tuzhurmatu was Turkish or Turkoman, 75 % of Karatepe was Turkish or Turkoman with 22 % Kurdish and 3 % Arab minorities and some villages had been inhabited by migrating Kurds.

Since 1957 the Iraqi administrations have endeavored to remodel the demographic structure of the region by changing the administrative sections of the Turks’ settlement region. In 1957 the Turkoman people had mostly settled in the provinces of Mosul, Arbil and Diyala. At that time the administrative sections were as follows ;

Mosul Province :

Central district with 3 connecting subdistricts and 209 villages.

Al-Şora 397

Amadiye 299

Dohok 226

Sincar 174

Zaho 256

Akra 244

Şeyhan 150

Telafer 198

(9 districts, 26 subdistricts and 2153 villages were connected to Mosul province.)

Arbil Province :

Central district with 1 connecting subdistrict and 223 villages

Kifri 3 243

Revanduz 3 252

Zeybar 3 124

Köysancak 2 142

Şaklava 3 176

(6 districts, 15 subdistricts and 1151 villages were connected to Arbil province.)

Kirkuk Province :

Central district with 5 connecting subdistricts and 520 villages

Kifri 3 318

Çemçemal 3 202

Tuzhurmatu 3 234

(4 districts, 14 subdistricts and 1274 villages were connected to Kirkuk province)

Diyala Province :

Bakıba district with 2 connecting subdistricts and 134 villages

Halis 3 171

Hanekin 4 213

Mendeli 2 84

Karahan 2 116

(5 districts, 13 subdistricts and 718 villages were connected to Diyala province.)

At that time Salman Beğ subdistrict was connected to Baghdad Central district and 33 villages were connected to this subdistrict.

Edited October 29, 2006 by nihalatsız

[nihalatsız]

2006 Turkmen demonstration in Kirkuk-Capital of Turkmeneli. Thousands of Iraki Turks are protesting the US invasion and their Kurdish collaborators.

[nihalatsız]

Map of Turkmeneli-Irak

[nihalatsız]

The Turkmens marching with the blue flags of Turkmeneli and Iraqi Turkmen Front. Iraqi Turkmen Front has currently three deputies in the Parlement. 2 from Mousol and 1 from Kirkuk. Besides 5 deputies are elected throught The Shiite List(Sistani Alliance) since %75 of the 3 milllion Turkish Population are Shiites. Ayatollah Mewla El-Taki who is the second person in SCIRI(el-hekim's organization-the biggest Shiite party) is a Turkmen from Talafar. There are also 2 Turkish deputies in the Kurdish parties, 1 in the Sunni İslamic Party, 1 in the party of ex-prime minister Allawi. Totally=12

As you see dear Armenians we Turks are everywhere. You are challening a great nation which spreads from East Siberia to Macedonia. A small nation of a few million people are challenging a big pride nation of 250 million despite the fact that they are surrounded by Azerbaijan state, Turkey and İranian Azerbaijan. Soon Akhıska-Mesket Turks(which were driven by Stalin to Siberia and Middle Asia in 1944) will return from exile to their homeland Ahıska and Ahılkelek. Georgia and Turkey has reached an accord about this issue. Over a few years you'll have 1,5 million Turkish neighbours in your Northern border. Than nowhere to escape. East= Azerbaijan, West =Turkey, South =İranian Azerbaijani Turcs(they'll be free after the American invasion. So you'll be no more borders with the Persian State but South Azerbaijan Turkish Republic with capital Tabriz) and finally north=Akhıksa-Meshet Turks.

[nihalatsız]

You should know your new neighbours :lol:

http://www.diplomaticobserver.com/news_read.asp?id=1266

AHISKA TURKS WİLL RETURN TO THEIR HOMELAND

For Ahiska Turks who expelled from their homeland, a new hope emerged. Giorgi Haindrava, Georgian State Minister in charge of breakaway regions stated that they will provide an opportunity of the gradual return for Ahiska Turks who expelled from their homeland during Soviet Union. During his visit to Javakheti where Armenian population constitutes a majority, Haindrava said that Ahiska Turks were subjected to a forced immigration in 1944 and works over their return process are continuing. “All legal rights of Ahiskans like all ethnical minorities in Georgia will be under protection” he said.

Before Georgia is accepted to the Council of Europe as a full member, among other things, it must give an opportunity for Ahiska Turks to return to their homeland.

Ahiska Turks, coming from Anatolia were forced to settle in the region between 1578 and the Russian invasion in 1828. The essential homelands of Ahiska Turks are regarded as the provinces of Ahiska, Ahılkelek, Aspinza, Adıgen and Bogdanovka that are within the lands of the Republic of Georgia and the neighbors of Turkey. The reason for the classification of the Turks that settled in these regions as Ahiska Turks is that the geographical name of the region that included these provinces was Ahiska.

Ahiska Turks was a Turkish group that was exiled for 3 times in the recent 70 years who incurred the wrath of Stalin, the bloody dictator in the year of 1944 and was subjected to exile again. Ahiska Turks expanded to various regions of the USSR in this bloody exile. Today, Ahiska Turks live in 264 different regions of 13 Republics. 70 thousands in 28 centers of population in Russian Federation, 145 thousands in Kazakhstan, 106 thousands in Azerbaijan, 57 thousands in Kyrgyzstan, 30 thousands in Uzbekistan, 18 thousands in Ukraine, 200 thousands in Turkey, and 3000 Ahiska Turks in various countries. There are totally 629 thousands of Ahiska Turks.

The reason why Ahiska Turks were subjected to exile was kept as confidential information for exactly 47 years. The subject was revealed upon the publication of the major documents that were related with the exiles in the year of 1991. Lavrentiy Beriya of Georgian roots, Superintendent of the Public Internal Affairs of the USSR sent a letter of proposal to Georgian İ.V. Stalin, the President of the State Defense Committee who was equipped with all authorities due to the state of war. In his letter (24th July 1944), he stated that “most of the Turkish nation that reside in the regions of Georgia SSR on the border of Turkey have an inclination of immigration upon their relations with their relatives on the side of Turkey. They are smugglers and they are engaged as spies for the Turkish intelligence bodies and they constitute manpower for the brigands”. Due to this statement, he proposed that 16700 families (with a population of 86.000-91.000) could be exiled from Ahiska region towards the Central Asia. Instead of these people, he also proposed the settlement of 7000 Georgian families from the districts that suffered lack of sufficient land in Georgia. After one week pursuant to this letter, the “exile” activities were initiated upon the Resolution of State Defense Committee that was signed by Stalin.

Edited October 29, 2006 by nihalatsız

[Kars]

Map of Turkmeneli-Irak

Haven’t you noticed that you are an incurable megalomaniac? Don’t you think your tendency towards gross exaggeration of numbers of Turks makes you look funny?

(Same goes for the “Ahiska” numbers).

[nihalatsız]

Haven’t you noticed that you are an incurable megalomaniac? Don’t you think your tendency towards gross exaggeration of numbers of Turks makes you look funny?

(Same goes for the “Ahiska” numbers).

I dont exagarete the numbers. According to the last reliable population census which was carried uit in 1957 before Arabization policy of Kirkuk by the Baath Party Turkmens were numbering 567.000. At that time Irak's population was only a little bit more than 5 million.

Ethnic structure of Kirkuk city centre according to the 1957 census:

%37 Turkish

%33 Kurdish

%26 Arab

%4 others

Even your Kurdish allies Barzani and the Talabani refer usually to that last reliable census in order to prove the non-Arabic character of Kirkuk.

Lets come to the issue of Ahıska. Acording to the statistical officials of Russia and the other ex-Soviet republics(2001) there 692.000 Ahıska Turks all over the world. But I think the number is much more higher because hundreds thousands of Ahıska Turks living in Turkey.

Lets accept that my 1,5 million is exaggareted and the official number 692.000 reflects the truth. Even in that case, Ahıska Turks who will return their homeland will uitnumber the Ottoman Armenians who were settled in that regions by the Russian colonialists. The Armenian number in Georgia is just lying somewhere between 400.000-450.000. I think you must get used to be the idea of having a new neighbour Turkish community in your northern borders. That's the unique solution for Georgians if they are really wishing to get rid of the Armenian separatism in their country.

[MiG-35]

Your ethnic maps of Iraq are cool... but they are not correct.

Here are the real ethnolinguistic maps of Iraq:

[Kars]

MiG, the other map doesn't show up.

[Thug]

Карс, теперь я понял, турк - это приговор. родившийся турком, человеком быть не может. И главное, говорить и слушать ничего не хочет. Просто пихает ложь тоннами вперемешку с угрозами.

[Kars]

I dont exagarete the numbers. [...]

Oh, really?

Let me tell you this: anyone, who says that the population of Akhaltskha region (let alone just Turkish population) could be somewhere near 690.000, is either insane or a fool. Or simply a liar. Most probably, you fit into all three categories.

[Kars]

Просто пихает ложь тоннами вперемешку с угрозами.

Вот именно, Thug джан! Что и требуется от него, на данном этапе. Пусть высказывается. Рано или поздно, этот пассажир уедет в виртуальные бани, зато сколько останется материала, доселе нам неизвестного, который мы всегда сможем использовать для ссылок, и пр.

Кроме того, всё это развлекательно.

Перейдет границы - пошлем к Елене матери. А пока пусть кувыркается, главное - не вступать в ожесточенные споры и не провоцировать. Еще одно недопустимое высказывание с его стороны - и придется банить, хочешь не хочешь. Лучше не надо.

На нем уже один рейтинг висит. Ну, признайтесь, разве не будет скучно без таких акробатиков?

[Kars]

Между прочим, этот акробатик хотя и постит из Турции, но азер-ец. Мы обменялись парочкой ЛС, по-тюркски, он пишет на азер.-ском. На этом и поймался акробатик, а потом начал оправдываться, что, мол... и т.д. В общем, на турецком не умеет писать, даже у меня лучше получается.

[Thug]

да, то-то он столько про южный адурбаган болтает

видать он и по русски понимает

короче, материальчик и вправду соберется

[MiG-35]

MiG, the other map doesn't show up.

Hmmm... now it doesn't work for me, too.

In any case, if you search Google by the words "Iraq ethnic map", you will find many maps showing that turks in Iraq has small spots only.

[MiG-35]

да, то-то он столько про южный адурбаган болтает

видать он и по русски понимает

короче, материальчик и вправду соберется

Да, причем он согласно своим постам осведомлен и в других вопросах Кавказа:

- в вопросе Понтоса и понтийских греков;

- в вопросе ахська турков (турков-месхетинцев);

- в вопросе о городе “Иереване” основанном ханом “Реваном”…

Типичный читатель газеты Зеркало.аз…