voter Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 After Londoner Protocol from 1830 when Greece get an independance from Osman Empire, the killing in all over the Turkey against non turks started. These were convulsions of dying empire and unsuccessful efforts of sultans of turkey for keeping all nations in "brotherhood". Since more than 200 years Turkey and turks are considered as a imperialist from all nations lived in ex empire, independantly from their religion or financial positions. Serbs, Bosnians, Rumenians, Bulgarians got their independancy after INDEPENDANCY MOVEMENT already in 1870 under San Stefano. Arabs, Armenians, Aramians just follow that evolution and tried to use their chance for getting independance. In front of this, any tries to "reunite" them in a one country is useless and considered as a imperialism, whatever name you give for it - Anatolian Federation or International Union of States.... Moreover a unificaion under the country, which would care a name Turkey - follower of Osman Empire, is just impossible... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voter Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 About blood feud-vendetta is not a story from my parents, but a reality of Middle Ages, that turks do not want to put away. Мoreover, they practice vendetta against not only their childerens, brothers and sisters, trying to escape a pressure and live free, as well to other nations, living in Turkey to present days, for instance Kurds, last killing of kurds in diyarbekir from turkish police was a 2 days ago... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voter Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 There is typical turkic story from Khoja Nasredin - Middle Asian comic character. -------- -One day people came and tell Khoja Nasredin, that one of his donkey run away. -Nasredin go into cattle-shed and starts beating other donkeys tethered there. -When people asked him, why he beat that ones in cattle-shed insead of catching and beating the one who run away? Nasredin answers "Because this ones dreams to run away, too" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voter Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Who wants to live together with others, must respect their right do not live together.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vagan-dzhan Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 So it is... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voter Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Essence try to use online translator http://www.translate.ru/srvurl.asp?lang=en from russian into Englisch or whatever language you like. There are many topics in our forum, that could show you the absence of HATE against turks. It is more ignorance and dislike... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Essence Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 In front of this, any tries to "reunite" them in a one country is useless and considered as a imperialism, whatever name you give for it - Anatolian Federation or International Union of States.... imperialism?Nope..i will call it as Internationalism..i dont want to found a Islam,Turkish,Armenian nation.I want to found An Internationalist Socialist state,do u understand? Being Crushed Nations of The World,Unite!! that could show you the absence of HATE against turks. i dont wanna see any more hate.. i saw enough.. but most of armenians just do not like tuks Oh,there is an expection..i have an armenian girlfriend.But stop,for you armenian can love only armenian,right?This is bullshit and racism..i love her,and she loves me.it is not being armenian or turkish..i love either turkish and armenian nations..if you are stucked in your nationalist and Diaspora's pressurestic ideology,it is your problem and lose.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Unregistered - M Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Tell your "armenian" girlfriend that she's a turk. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Essence Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 You know what,here is full of Racists..And with your anti-humanist ideas,you dont deserve respect..i dont know why i am trying to explain you "peace"..Your ideas are very similiar with Enver And Talat Pasa..Difference is location,time and side..But it is the same thing.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Unregistered - M Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Oh well, if it makes you happy then I accept that I'm a racist. But... You are a turk. I can change myself, but you have no way to change your blood. I don't even want to be respected by turks. It's like... being loved by evil. You'd better explain "peace" to your turkish brothers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Essence Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 I have no problem with Being A Turk..But you have serious problems about being a human..You know what my blood is human blood,but yours will be destroyed like your friends,Hitler,Mussoloni,Talat Pasa,Bush,Saron and the others...Something - like human blood that you have. But i love the armenian people because i met lots of good them.And i love one of them.And the rest is not important..Like you racist people,it doesnt matter Armenian,Nazi,Turk etc. Your end will be same. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Unregistered - M Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 I really feel sorry about you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MiG-35 Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Essence, I see you have found a pretty smart way to solve problems for you: you call yourselves a Marxist, and an enemy of all kinds of nationalists (including Hitler of Germany and Talat of Turkey). And, therefore, you find you are free from obligations of any kind… For, those who killed people were nationalists, and you are not a nationalist… You are a Marxist or whatever… This “clever” approach is not appropriate in our situation, at all! Consider the example of Germany. That country killed millions of people under the rule of NSDAP (the Nazis). These days Nazis no longer rule in Germany, and the Germans mostly follow not Nazi ideas but many other ideologies: liberalist, Marxist, capitalist, internationalist, socialist, Christian-democratic, etc… etc… But whatever ideology rules in Germany, the Germans do bear responsibility for the Holocaust and for the other genocides they committed… Do you understand that Turks still has responsibility for the Genocide of 1915-1923 regardless of the Marxisti deas about brotherhood you declare? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Essence Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 If we think from your view,than you are also responsible.You are responsible for what Hitler,What Talat what the other racist,anti-humanitirians did..Because all of this "men" are humans,as you.From your "race",humanity. And dont forget sth.I didnt kill anyone or didnt defend killing..I dont defend that ideology or i dont support wars.. etc. etc. What some class did,cannot be generalized to Turkish people or to Humanity.Me and Turkish People arent responsible.How can be a human responsible,that happened out of his control and before he was born.Of course i condemn all type of this wildness,but i am not responsible of anything like that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MiG-35 Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 I regret to say that your attempts to explain things by a few Marxist formulas (about brotherhood, etc.) are becoming less and less convincing. You compare responsibility of the Turks for the crimes of Talat to the responsibility of Armenians for the crimes of Hitler? Yes, I am a human being, and as a human I in some sense am responsible for the crimes of Hitler, and, say, for the Genocide of native Americans in the Western Hemisphere… But it is very unfair to use arguments like that, because one of the most dangerous things after a crime is to cover the direct responsibility for the crime by some too general phrases… Responsibility for a crime need be properly understood for prevention of the crime in the future! Germans, too, are humans, and they, too, in some sense are responsible for the Genocide of native Americans… but the responsibility of the Germans for the Genocide of native Americans is not the same as the responsibility of Germany for the Holocaust… Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Essence Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Germans, too, are humans, and they, too, in some sense are responsible for the Genocide of native Americans… but the responsibility of the Germans for the Genocide of native Americans is not the same as the responsibility of Germany for the Holocaust… Why?i really dont understand.Than Hitler could be an Armenian too..You think Germans are more responsible because of They are grandchildren of Nazis?This is foolishness my friend.Their ancestors can be Nazis but are they?This is the important question.Do they support that anti-humanistic things?For example,your grandad coulb be a mass-murderer.And he died before you were born.Does this make you,murderer?Or are you more responsible than other people for this?if yes,why?i really dont understand..Please explain this to me. one of the most dangerous things after a crime is to cover the direct responsibility for the crime by some too general phrases… Responsibility for a crime need be properly understood for prevention of the crime in the future! Yes,the reason should be understood,objectively.And for Armenian-Turk two sided massacre's reason was nationalism and Russia's imperialism,basicly..We should understand,prevent and destory humanity's dark face.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phrygian Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 (edited) Yes,the reason should be understood,objectively.And for Armenian-Turk two sided massacre's reason was nationalism and Russia's imperialism,basicly..We should understand,prevent and destory humanity's dark face.. ← You're starting to show your true colors. There is only one side, the truth. The truth is you savages along with your cave dwelling kurdish animals annihilated the autochtonous Armenian population and drove out the survivors to the middle east. Russian Imperialism has nothing to do with the Armenian Holocaust neither do peasants fighting back with sticks and stones to save their family and children. Time is running out for you and your kind, you will pay for your crimes. Edited September 2, 2005 by Phrygian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MiG-35 Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Essence, I lived in Germany for years, and I know this matter about Germany’s responsibility incredibly well… For what you have written above you cold already be banned in Germany… Yes, an individual German guy is not responsible for Holocaust because of his dead Nazi grandfather. Moreover, the grandfather of that Germany guy might have actually been not a Nazi but, in the contrary, a true antifascist or an internationalist-socialist! But the point is not in an individual guy’s responsibility. There exists a country GERMANY, which has a responsibility as a whole Country, as a whole Nation. Find a German guy, an he will answer your points well. It really is funny to see, how your attempts to “save” TURKEY from its responsibility for the Genocides of Armenians, of the Pontic Greeks and of the Assyrians, brings you to strange results about Germany, Hitler, etc… Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Essence Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 There exists a country GERMANY, which has a responsibility as a whole Country, as a whole Nation. Than,this is only about a name right? you still dont answer why today German Nation should be more responsible than any other nation for the genocide. the example that i gave,about grandad..Because of the family's last name,should grandchildren be more responsible?You cant really answer this question. It really is funny to see, how your attempts to “save” TURKEY from its responsibility for the Genocides of Armenians, of the Pontic Greeks and of the Assyrians, Nope...I dont have a "try" like that.i only want to show truths..At least Turkish imperialist State is not really my state..Also Armenian dictatorship is not.. i take responsibility that how much a people should take.Not much not less.i condemn that two-sided massacre and let the souls free.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 (edited) Tere Essence! I'm Jew from Estonia. Excuse for an immodest question - you really are the Turk & Marksist ? Edited September 5, 2005 by Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Markos Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Hi,Essence! Are really in Estonia? And you wonna talk about relation between armenians and turkish? I live in Estonia to. So , we can meet and I shall explain you our position. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MiG-35 Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Essence muallim, where do you live? In which country? Do you have a university education? If yes, in which country? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voter Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 imperialism?Nope..i will call it as Internationalism..i dont want to found a Islam,Turkish,Armenian nation.I want to found An Internationalist Socialist state,do u understand? Being Crushed Nations of The World,Unite!! Seems we need to clarify some political and englisch backgrounds at first. Internationalism is a political movement which advocates a greater economic and political cooperation between nations for the benefit of all. The unification to which you call based on territories and/or nations and no words about mutula benefits. When Turkey will open without preconditions the only closed border in Europ, one could start to thinkg about, that turks have international European principles of unification - MUTUAL, benefit fo both and no any purpose of ruling... i dont wanna see any more hate.. i saw enough.. Now some englisch - ABSENCE, means there is NO HATE against turks. Do not like - is not HATE, otherwise it would be useless to use 2 different words. About love and limitation for armenians to love and marry only armenians I could say, that it is not only for armenians, but worldwide problem. From biological point of view, the genetic history inherited from father by help of Y cromosoms. So it is scientifically defined, that children of armenian mother with non-armenian father will be non-armenians and genetic history carried tousands of years will be lost. So the girl could decide in continuation of whom genetic history she want to partisipate... But this is an eternal question for another our section called Love and Romance, you could try to discuss it there... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voter Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 ....you still dont answer why today German Nation should be more responsible than any other nation for the genocide..... German nation WAS responsible for holocaust of jews and any for other in WW1 made massacers, but German nation must condemn, blame that facts and his "sons", who did it, that it not happened again. And They do it. Evenmore, German parlament condemned and blamed some moths ago his goverment from 1915, too for being responsible in Genocide of Armenians and other christian nations, as a collaborator of Turkey in WW1... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voter Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Tere Essence! I'm Jew from Estonia. Excuse for an immodest question - you really are the Turk & Marksist ? ← You don't know, that all turks are marxists since Kemal Ataturk promised bolshevik russia to participate in worldwide expansion of bolshevik revolution, the territories of Kars and Trapison, as well agreement about Naxichevan were presents to red brothers, who even paint their flag to RED color... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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