Thoughts of an anti-nationalist Turk

[gungorayar]

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Hey dashnak,

Grey Wolfs are coming from Turkey, Northern Azerbaijan, South Azerbaijan(currently under Persian occupation), Borchali-Georgia, Kirkuk-Turkmeneli-Irak,. We shall raise Our Grey Wolf flag on the bastions of historical Turkish town Erevan. Soon u shall leave the occupied North-West Azerbaijan. Hopefully u have a relative in France or US.

NihalatsızKardeşim;

I totally agree with you.They seem to have forgot how turks can fight,and what a greywolf means.They ,with their ten million or some poulation ,prefer having daydreams,why not let them go on with their dreams?It never hurts us only makes us laugh.I joined this forum to discuss the matter.I got pretty sure that those Armenians will never succeed due to the ones who wrote in this forum reflecting how empty skulls they have.

We are unfortunately under some pressure for now but 80 million in Batı Turkeli,35 million in South Adzerbaijan(Iran),8 million in Adzerbaijan are in no need of having such childish daydreams .Tanrı Türkü Korusun.G.Ayar.Bozkurt Soylu

[Thug]

gungorayar you also are turk?

I have something for you

1. don't speak on turkish here, you can speak only in armenian. russian or english

2. don't think that number of people decides everything. in turkey turks are 50 mln, about 12 mln kurds and very many criptoarmenians (up to 2 mln), criptoassyrian (up to 500 000), georgians and lazes (up to 2 mln), and some other nations. turk-azeri in Iran are no more then 15 mln

3. don't think that if you start war, you will fight only against Armenia. Greeks also hate you, cause of everything bad you did to them, so do assyrians, arabs, parsians and kurds!

Why do you want to destroy and kill everyone? your empire of evil will ruin one day

4. don't think that we are afraid. as we say, we are a little amount, but we are Armenians. every armenian will go to fight with you.

5. that stories that you're telling about Genocide, like Armenians started waring wih you is real bullshit, 'cuz if armenians would start real fight (for that day there were 4 mln armenians all over the world, 2.2 mln armenian christian (there were also many muslimized armenians, but they were not killed) in osman empire, and 8 mln turks!) do you think that turks could kill so many armenians if armenians would fight?? and you also killed many Greeks and Assyrians. And don't try to say that we say that there were more victims then it was in real. every!!armenian family has many killed in those days

forgive for my English

[Kars]

Bora Kardeş;Bu ve buna benzer forumları incele senin gibi demokrat bulamazsın.Nedense kendini kцtьleyen demokrartlar hep bizden зıkar.Senin gibi sцzьm ona demokratların sayısı arttıkзa biz bu savaşı kaybederiz.Şimdi sana bu forumdan tebrik mesajları gelecek ve sen de gıdanı alacaksın.

gungorayar, bu forumda Tűrkçe yazmak yasaktır! Burada tek Ermeni, Rus ve İngiliz dilleri kanunilar. Buraya bak: http://forum.hayastan.com/index.php?act=ST...6413&st=30#

There will be no warning this time, since you are just expressing your opinions and not breaking any rules, but if you use Turkish in the future, you’ll receive another point in your collection.

[voter]

NihalatsızKardeşim;

I totally agree with you.They seem to have forgot how turks can fight,and what a greywolf means.They ,with their ten million or some poulation ,prefer having daydreams,why not let them go on with their dreams?It never hurts us only makes us laugh.I joined this forum to discuss the matter.I got pretty sure that those Armenians will never succeed due to the ones who wrote in this forum reflecting how empty skulls they have.

We are unfortunately under some pressure for now but 80 million in Batı Turkeli,35 million in South Adzerbaijan(Iran),8 million in Adzerbaijan are in no need of having such childish daydreams .Tanrı Tьrkь Korusun.G.Ayar.Bozkurt Soylu

No any turk will speak about azerbaijanis as a non turks, since when greywolfs having azerbaijani nationality as a separate unit and not as turks?

Childish daydreamers are the ones, who think that just comparing the ammount of people like you "we are 10 times more than you", one could make armenians scaring and changing their mind.

Сулуши, как эта сулучилас, чито сын азирпайчанских турок савсем русский забил, да?

[Thug]

он помнит

но притворяется

[Pedrenyal]

Nationalism is not a bad thing. Only ultra-nationalism and thinking that your culture is better than the other ones are bad things.

I'm new, too.

Edited December 10, 2006 by Pedrenyal

[LowSpirit]

И как я пропустил такую тему с живыми турками - не мойму

Надеюсь они еще вернутся, ибо мало получили!

Особо захотелось съездить ф дрефни турецки город Иривань!

3. don't think that if you start war, you will fight only against Armenia. Greeks also hate you, cause of everything bad you did to them, so do assyrians, arabs, parsians and kurds!

I'm sure that Russia wont stay away!

Hey, Turk, do you remember what and how Russia did with your Ottoman Empire? So I'll be happy if destiny'll give us a chance to finish our ald beginnin's Also I'm sure that there'll be alot of serbian, ukraynian, romanian volunteers. So It'll be some good huntin' time on a grey wolf (frankly speakin' - jackal).

[voter]

Nationalism is not a bad thing. Only ultra-nationalism and thinking that your culture is better than the other ones are bad things.

I'm new, too.

Hello to catalonia.

Sure thinking that your culture and nation is GOOD ONE is not bad and only when you start to COMPARE and state we are BETTER, you lost.

[dinococo]

I realy toched by topic of Armenia-Turkey,and really apreciate to write us armenians to know that there are hope that not all turk people are nactionalist,and bealive me not even armenians are.

That true we hate each other but look at turk governement and people behavor,they want erase armenians from the surface of the world. and i say you about our children , my boy he is 11 and he is not realy "armenian", he grew outside of armenia in other spirit.. but first time he knew and saw all that stuff and pictures about genocide he cryed,11 old boy,and he made a campagne in school about a genocide.

I think there will be always a anger betwen our people and it take a very long time to cure that anger. But any way Iam very glad to know you, and one more time i apreciate.

[Guest fraternity for eternity]

hello everyone,

i am a new member and an anti-nationalist turk too.

recently we are all suffering from the assassination of Hrant Dink. He was the admin of newspaper Agos. He was the symbol of peace between armenian and turkish nations. yes, he died; but his thoughts will never. Now in turkey thousands of people shout their slogans "we're all Hrant, we're all armenians"

And i'm an armenian too. When i look at the turks in middle-asia, i find nothing similar to me. But when i have a glance at armenian culture, i find myself. in your cousin, in your songs, in your appearance. even my village's name is in armenian.

we shouldn't forget that we have been crying and smiling for the same things for centuries.

Hrant means "living fire" Let the fire of our friendship burn, as Lennon says "give peace a chance"

[Thug]

Hello

Forgive me for my English, I have not English education

Now in turkey thousands of people shout their slogans "we're all Hrant, we're all armenians"

Maybe most of them really were Armenians? You know, in Istanbul there are 60 000 Armenians

When i look at the turks in middle-asia, i find nothing similar to me. But when i have a glance at armenian culture, i find myself. in your cousin, in your songs, in your appearance. even my village's name is in armenian.

In 11 cent. Armenian populations of middle Asia was much more than turkish but during many centuries it didn't grow 'cuz of politics of Ottoman emperors, so during this process many Armenians were islamized and now in Turkey do live very many Armenians who don't know their ancestors. Maybe you are such too, one of islamized armenians in Turkey

we shouldn't forget that we have been crying and smiling for the same things for centuries.

hmm... )

Hrant means "living fire" Let the fire of our friendship burn, as Lennon says "give peace a chance"

Well, peace is very good, but I find such wishes in a little amount of Turks, very little emount

This was wroten on Armenian church in Kadigug

[Guest fraternity for eternity]

armenians don't have to shout that they're armenians, do they of course i know that most of the people who protest this murder are turks. i guess it is not easily seen from outside but in turkey there are lots of democratic people against racism, fascism and all such shits.

it is obvious that you don't know english very well, because i said "middle-asia", not "middle-east". in middle-asia there are uzbekistan, turkmenistan, afghanistan and so on. armenians lived in anatolia, not in middle asia. in that paragraph i tried to say that i have no relation with my so colled "origins" anymore, but armenian culture is a part of my lifestyle.

and bull's eye man, my village is in the north-west region of Turkey, where armenians, who were converted their religion to islam centuries ago, live. i told you, the name of my village is in armenian. that means yes, inside my veins there's armenian blood too. i've already said that in that words.

i wonder why you are so offensive against me. i guess you always prepared to fight against turks. is it difficult not to argue with a turk? calm down, it's OK. if you insist on to be a nationalist, i may behave like you. this is what you want, huh?

[Kars]

Hello, Fraternity, and welcome to this forum.

Let me ask you this, before we go any further: please do not involve yourself in any hostile discussions. Different people have different views, including myself and yourself, and these views are strictly personal; they do not represent this forum’s agenda or politics. Therefore, it is advisable to treat each participant as an individual (not – as a representative of this forum or as a representative of all Armenians), and with respect – even if you strongly disagree with his/her opinion.

Now, a question for you, if you don’t mind.

You mentioned that you originate from some village in North-Western Turkey and that the village has an Armenian name. I strongly doubt that theory. As far as I know, there are no Armenian place-names in that particular part of Anatolia. You are either mistaken or misled. If it is no secret, can you write the name of that village? (You don’t have to, of course – if you think it’s too personal).

Regards,

kars

[Guest fraternity for eternity]

i am quite used to those arguements from nationalists. nationalists are all the same, no matter they're turkish or armenian.

of course you can ask. it has a strange pronunciation, but it may be written as Zoğa. Names of the nearby villages are Mağlut, Moshi(this may be georgian) etc.

In that region (hemshin), "hamshenis" (also known as "khemshils") people live together with georgians, megrels and turks. they're ethnically armenians. you can investigate it by google

so, is your family from Kars?

[Kars]

In that region (hemshin), "hamshenis" (also known as "khemshils") people live together with georgians, megrels and turks. they're ethnically armenians. you can investigate it by google

I know very well where the Hemşin live, fraternity. I don’t need Google to learn about them. In fact, we have many topics about Hemshins, in this forum; unfortunately, you can’t read Armenian or Russian to participate in those discussions. And, by the way, I personally have visited Camlıhemşin twice.

Anyway, you made a mistake and thus misled me and others. You said:

my village is in the north-west region of Turkey, where armenians, who were converted their religion to islam centuries ago, live

You see, every time you confuse ”east” with ”west” – misunderstanding may occur. Tune up your compass, or buy a new one!

As it turns out, you originate from north-eastern parts of modern Turkey. That’s a whole different situation.

[Kars]

of course you can ask. it has a strange pronunciation, but it may be written as Zoğa. Names of the nearby villages are Mağlut, Moshi(this may be georgian) etc.

Can’t say anything about Zoğa – but the name is definitely not Turkic. And, again, it is no surprise that many toponyms in north-eastern parts of modern Turkey have Armenian or other non-Turkic origins.

What regards Mağlut and Moshi – these place-names are undoubtedly Armenian. There are many Armenian toponyms with –ut ending (which is translatable).

Moshi is a word in dialectal Armenian (translated: "blackberry place", in Turkish – böğürtlen yeri).

Now, tell me: is there a lot of böğürtlen in the village of Moshi?

[Kars]

so, is your family from Kars?

Yes, from Kars (father's line) and from Muş (mother's line).

[Kars]

Siz nerelisiniz?

[Guest fraternity for eternity]

oooow what have i done :)

sorry for the silly mistake, i must confess that i can't type and think at the same time :) as you check my previous posts you'll see that i wrote "cousin" instead of "cuisine" i am not quite careful about what i type.

a friend of mine is from Muş-Varto, and he once said that their village names are in armenian too. ("vart" means "rose" anyway) Hrant Dink's wife is also from the tribe(i don't know if it is the exact word) of Varto. But i am quite sure that you already know all those things. I think you should give information to me about Turkey dude

I am from Hemşin, (but not çamlıhemşin, normal hemşin ) from father line.

maybe you know in Hopa/Hemşin they celebrate the "culture, art and sea festival" everyyear in summer time. i invite you (and i insist that you should accept this invitation)

by the way, i can't believe that your turkish knowledge is excellent. (better than mine for sure ) how come it's possible? i have to say "helal olsun valla" this has no english translation right

[Thug]

Привет, Карс, если можно, переведи ему мой текст, а то я не могу ему позволить цепляться за мой плохой английский

1. Все националисты разные. Цель турецкого националиста убить другой народ. Цель армянского националиста спасти свой. Это история показала уже много раз

2. Я не верю, что ты армянин. Если ты имеешь армянские корни, мы готовы тебя принять, но я почему-то уверен, что ты турк, который пытается нам вдолбить в голову очередные сказки что турки хотят мира

[Yerevanci]

Thug

Ну почему, ПОЧЕМУ ты опять прав?!?

[Kars]

Привет, Карс, если можно, переведи ему мой текст, а то я не могу ему позволить цепляться за мой плохой английский

1. Все националисты разные. Цель турецкого националиста убить другой народ. Цель армянского националиста спасти свой. Это история показала уже много раз

2. Я не верю, что ты армянин. Если ты имеешь армянские корни, мы готовы тебя принять, но я почему-то уверен, что ты турк, который пытается нам вдолбить в голову очередные сказки что турки хотят мира

Thug джан,

Во-первых: тут - не конкуренция в знании английского языка. Пиши как можешь - английским ты владеешь неплохо, и всё, что ты до сих пор писал на английском - понятно и прекрасно высказано. Состязаний в знании английского здесь не должно быть. Все мы делаем грамматические ошибки, на любом языке - у кого больше, у кого меньше. Фратернити тоже чуть-чуть хромает в английском, но не это ведь важно!

Во-вторых: не надо обижать этого пассажира. Он, насколько я понял, пришел сюда не с плохими намерениями.

[Kars]

Fraternity, a user of this forum (Thug) asked me to translate his post from Russian into English. It was addressed to you, I believe. He wrote: http://forum.hayastan.com/index.php?showto...amp;st=50&#

1. Все националисты разные. Цель турецкого националиста убить другой народ. Цель армянского националиста спасти свой. Это история показала уже много раз

2. Я не верю, что ты армянин. Если ты имеешь армянские корни, мы готовы тебя принять, но я почему-то уверен, что ты турк, который пытается нам вдолбить в голову очередные сказки что турки хотят мира

Translated (casually):

1. Nationalists are different. The purpose of a Turkish nationalist is to kill other people. The purpose of an Armenian nationalist is to save his own. History has shown it – time and time again.

2. I do not believe that you are an Armenian. If you were to have Armenian roots we’d be ready to accept you; but for whatever reasons I am sure that you are a Turk trying to bullshit us into believing that Turks actually want peace.

[Thug]

Ереванци, спасибо

Карс, я согласен. Но он писал о средней Азии, а я спутал с Малой Азией, в результате, из-за этой моей ошибки (что в Малой(/Средней) Азии армяне были в большем количестве, чем турки или любой другой народ), он вывел весь пост чушью. Я просто не могу позволить туркам роскоши умалить точность моих слов из-за недостаточного знания английского языка

[Yerevanci]

Thug

Я думаю если и есть турки антинационалисты, то они растворяются в массе националистов. Я думаю с Турцией возможен диалог когда антинационалистов станет больше чем их противников(а это будет видно по конкретным действиям). А данный товарищ, с какими бы хорошими намерениями не пришел сюда, он все равно не может выразить настроение турецкого народа, а ведь очень хотелось бы чтобы таких как он было бы побольше, но увы и ах...