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Shenyаtsi

Hazarapet
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Everything posted by Shenyаtsi

  1. Ребята, не делайте кашу из простого проекта..... Пока опредилимся КТО будет из Hayastan.com, потом будем решать вопросы ЧТО и КАК делать..... voter jan, на Gorna отдельно злиться не надо. Многие отреагировали на это сообщение и хотели что-то сделать.... именно что-то сделать, но не конкректно что-то правильное.... Ты тоже был в этом числе... Так что давайте успокоимся и сделаем выводы из всего этого, а чтобы такое не повторилось, думаю идея (которую как я понял поддержали почти все) с союзом Армянских Форумов предотвратит нас от дальнейших ошибок и даст возможность сделать большее.... но это уже технические вопросы. Сначала давайте выберем представителей. Если из списка который я выдвинул никто не возьмёт самоотвод, значит утвердим список (кроме Rouna) и перейдём к следующему шагу завтра. Согласны?!
  2. kak raz takoe soobshestvo i budet xoroshim nachalom dlya takix trenii tozhe, ya dumay. Nado sozdavat' takoi soyz i ne otkladivat'. Davaite pereidem k obsuzhdeniy kto budet presdtavlyat' soyz, potom pereidem k sleduyshemu punktu....
  3. vidvigay kandidaturi s nashego saita: Celtic voter Rouna Zlaya Mudrost' Aks ...... predlagaite svoi kandidaturi kto na saite bivaet chasto (menyak hayer!) Gorn budet predstavlyat' Artsakhski sait ya dumay
  4. voter jan, chto sluchilos'? ob'yasni, ya chto-to propustil?
  5. izviniyays' za klatinicu opyat'..... Sergei jan, Eshe raz i nadeys' v poslednii raz popitays' ob'yasnit' pochemu ya zol na Izrail (no ne na evreev v obshem, kak ti eto pripodnosish'). Esli bi Izrail' stoyal bi v storone so svoimi interesami i imel bi druzei hot' Gitlera so Stalinim, mne eto nizhe kolena.... no zol ya na nix, chto oni stavyat palki nam v kolesa PODDERZHIVAYA turkov. Pust' delayt svoi dela, ne gadya nam.... Vot i vse. V ostal'nom ti prav, kak ya uzhe eto otmechal... ya nemnogo podumal i ponyal, chto turkam evrei nuzhnee seichas.... Posle Iraka, kotori de-fakto stal Kurdistanom, turkam stanet eshe slozhnee podderzhivat' "druzheskie otnosheniya" s evreyami. i potom na danni moment, turkam peremeni v strane nuzhnee, chem stabil'nomu (v sravnenii) Izraily. poetomu nemnogo ne ponyatno, dlya chego Izrail' tak brataetsya s turkami ili im prosto priyatno prinimat' tureckie pocelui v zadnici.... navernoe ya bi tozhe ne otkazalsya.....
  6. ARMENIA THIS WEEK Monday, May 16, 2005 In this issue: Karabakh gears up for tightly contested parliamentary election No follow-up in Armenian-Turkish relations after letter exchange Wall Street Journal on the Armenian Genocide death toll KARABAKH GEARS UP FOR TIGHTLY CONTESTED PARLIAMENTARY POLL Pre-election campaigning officially began this week in the Nagorno Karabakh Republic, which is set to hold a parliamentary election on June 19, its fourth such poll since independence in 1991 and most contested to date. Seven political parties and blocs have registered to compete for eleven seats to be awarded through proportional representation and 127 individual candidates are set to run in 22 electoral districts. Majoritarian races are expected to be especially close in the Karabakh capital of Stepanakert, where 79 individual candidates are running in eight constituencies. As in past elections international observers are due to monitor the election. The Democratic Party of Artsakh (AZhK), which is the main political support base for the incumbent President Arkady Ghoukasian, will seek to maintain its majority status. AZhK was established following the recent merger between the Democratic Artsakh Union and Karabakh’s Social Democratic Party that gave the new party 20 seats in the 33-member National Assembly. The party is led by Education Minister Ashot Ghoulian and head of the “Democracy” parliamentary faction Vahram Atanesian. Interviewed this week, Atanesian praised the incumbent government’s record, including strong economic growth and reforms that have helped harmonize Karabakh’s laws with Council of Europe recommendations. According to local reports, AZhK is facing strong challengers, particularly the Bloc of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation (HHD) and Movement-88, and the Free Motherland Party. After backing Ghoukasian’s re-election in 2002, HHD had a falling out with the President over policy and personnel issues, backing one of the Movement-88 party leaders, parliamentarian Eduard Aghabekian in Stepanakert mayoral elections last August. Aghabekian, who went on to win the run-off elections, co-founded Movement-88 in early 2004 as a public organization dedicated to reform in the spirit of the Karabakh liberation movement launched in February 1988. The HHD-Movement-88’s pre-election program focuses on the need for Karabakh’s more active participation in the peace process, increased social spending, stronger parliamentary supervision of the government and improved business climate. The right-of-center Free Motherland Party (AHK) has a four-person collective leadership comprised of Professors Arpat Avanesian and Artur Tovmasian (former Parliament Speaker and 1997 presidential candidate), and businessmen Araik Harutiunian and Rudolf Hiusnunts. AHK is seen as a pro-establishment party which could potentially create a coalition with AZhK. President Ghoukasian stressed in an interview last month that the elections must be “honest and free.” Speaking at the Council of Europe over the weekend, Armenia’s President Robert Kocharian urged the organization to find a formula for Karabakh’s participation in the process of European integration as a de-facto established, although formally unrecognized, state. In addition to forming a new Nagorno Karabakh legislature, the upcoming parliamentary election is expected to set the stage for presidential succession in Karabakh, as President Ghoukasian completes his second term in office in 2007. (Sources: Armenia This Week 1-24; Azat Artsakh 4-15; Regnum.ru 4-16, 22, 5-16; Kavkaz.memo.ru 5-16; Mediamax 5-16) NO PROGRESS IN ARMENIA-TURKEY RELATIONS FOLLOWING EXCHANGE OF LETTERS There appeared to be no follow-up on the recent exchange of letters between President Robert Kocharian and Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan as the widely anticipated meeting between the two leaders this week failed to take place. Turkish official sources, cited in the press last week, claimed that Erdogan would seek Azeri President Ilham Aliyev’s permission to meet with Kocharian. In an apparent ploy to thwart Genocide affirmation, Erdogan made a widely publicized offer to establish a joint commission of historians to “study” the Genocide. Kocharian responded with a counter-offer to normalize relations without pre-conditions. But Turkish officials, while admitting that their efforts to deny the Genocide have not been effective, pledged to continue their denial along with the anti-Armenian blockade. On a visit to Ankara earlier this month, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Laura Kennedy reiterated U.S. support for normalization of Armenian-Turkish relations, adding that Kocharian’s proposal “certainly has merit” and that the exchange of letters was “promising” and should be followed-up. Kennedy further denied that Armenia has territorial claims against Turkey and that that was the reason for the campaign for international affirmation of the Armenian Genocide. On the same day, speaking at a public event in Washington, DC, former Secretary of State Madeline Albright said it would be a “good idea” for Turkey to recognize the Armenian Genocide, in order to improve its stature in the region and “put the past behind.” (Sources: Armenia This Week 4-25; Brookings.edu 5-3; U.S. Embassy in Turkey 5-3; Turkish Daily News 5-5; Zaman 5-13) A WEEKLY NEWSLETTER PUBLISHED BY THE ARMENIAN ASSEMBLY OF AMERICA 1140 19th Street, N.W., Suite 600, Washington, D.C. 20001 (202) 393-3434 FAX (202) 638-4904 E-Mail [email protected] WEB http://www.aaainc.org The Wall Street Journal May 16, 2005 THE NUMBERS GUY By CARL BIALIK Killings From 90 Years Ago Haunt Turkey in its EU Bid The Ottoman empire's deportation and mass killing of Armenians 90 years ago has become a tense issue for modern-day Turkey, which is being pressured by the European Union and some of its member nations to acknowledge the actions as genocide and open up its archives. And questionable numbers are a central part of the controversy. Armenia argues that as many as 1.5 million Armenians were massacred. But Turkey says the number of dead was no more than 600,000 and possibly far fewer, and says the killings were justified as the product of armed conflicts that swept the region at the time. Scholars disagree on the number, and politics have obstructed honest statistical debate. Some background: In the final years of the Ottoman empire -- which stretched from modern-day Turkey to much of Europe, northern Africa and the Middle East for more than 600 years -- a Turkish nationalist government led mass deportations and killings of Armenians. The violence lasted from 1915 until the early 1920s. Modern-day Turkey says the targeted Armenians, an ethnic minority present throughout the empire, had conspired with Russians in military operations against the empire, and that Armenians' revolutionary actions against the state spurred the mass deportations. Neither Turkey nor Armenia existed as nations during the violence, yet many Turks and Armenians line up today to defend their ethnic groups' historical records. Immigration, trade issues and Turkey's Muslim majority -- which would be unique in the EU -- all are playing a large role in the run up to negotiations over membership, scheduled to begin in October. Against this backdrop, Turkey's historical dispute with Armenia has emerged as a potential stumbling block to membership. Heiki Talvitie, the EU's special representative to the South Caucasus, said recently at a press conference that Turkey's membership chances hinged in part on its relations with Armenia, according to Agence France Presse. Currently the countries have no diplomatic relations, and a major reason is the dispute over whether the Ottomans committed genocide. In the past decade, national legislatures of several EU members, including France, Italy and the Netherlands, have called the killings genocide. The U.S. and Turkey have not. Disputed death tolls often follow genocide, according to Richard Garfield, a professor of nursing at Columbia University who has extensively studied mass killings. "The politicization of mortality data means that controversy and wide variations in estimates is the norm," Dr. Garfield says. He has worked in Liberia, Yugoslavia and Haiti, helping to improve death counts from modern-day conflicts. Of course, I can't conclusively determine how many Armenians died. But I'll explain how scholars arrived at their estimates and why counting the dead is such a complex business. Even in a political vacuum, counting the dead from nearly a century ago would be difficult. The killers had no reason to tally their victims, nor were international organizations in place to monitor the killing. So researchers have employed a brute tool: subtraction. They compare the number of Armenians before World War I with the number of survivors, who were spread across many surrounding countries. The difference in population becomes the number of victims. Of course, that doesn't account for newborns. It also includes deaths from disease and starvation, and while those deaths may be related to the killings, it's debatable whether they should be included in the overall count. "There really isn't the information to make an evidence-based consensus about how many people died," Dr. Garfield says. As I noted in a previous column, even today in some parts of the world population counts are unreliable. All the more so, then, in rural areas of the Ottoman empire. Before the killings there were two parallel efforts to count the living -- one by the Ottomans, and one by the Armenian church -- but there are suggestions both groups' motivations may have affected their accuracy (more on that in a moment). So researchers trying to arrive at a death count adjust the population numbers, and those adjustments can have a big impact on end results. For example, count more prewar Armenians, and you'll get a higher death toll. Tuluy Tanc, minister counselor of the Turkish embassy in Washington, cited death counts to me as low as 8,000 to 9,000, based on records Ottomans kept. But those doing the killing are hardly credible sources for a death toll. Mr. Tanc said he wouldn't insist on any particular set of numbers, saying his government has also recognized estimates up to 600,000. "There are many, many different sources," he says. The embassy's Web site cites figures between 500,000 and 600,000. Justin McCarthy, a professor at the University of Louisville, arrived at a count of 600,000 dead by using official Ottoman population registrations. He adjusted for an assumed undercounting of women and children, a common problem in unsophisticated population counts, and arrived at a prewar population of 1.5 million for Armenians living in the eastern part of the Ottoman empire, known as Anatolia. Then he counted 900,000 survivors, based on official data from Russia and other countries where they settled. Dr. McCarthy published his findings in 1983; they were double many earlier estimates. In 1991, Levon Marashlian, a professor of history at Glendale Community College in Glendale, Calif., published a critique accusing Dr. McCarthy of undercounting. Among his arguments: Armenians were likely undercounted because they hid from officials during the conflict. "If you hide, you're not taxed, you're not conscripted," Dr. Marashlian told me. And he says the Ottomans had their own reasons to undercount: "The Ottoman government had the motivation to show as few Armenians as possible, because the Europeans were pressuring Ottomans to institute reforms." He cites contemporary accounts that indicate the Ottomans were suppressing the numbers. Dr. Marashlian thus adjusts Dr. McCarthy's prewar estimates higher, and notes that the new results are closer to the Armenian church's own numbers. He concludes there were two million Armenians before the war, and he counts only 800,000 survivors, yielding an estimated total of 1.2 million dead. Dr. McCarthy, in turn, says the Ottomans' adult male records were accurate, and disputes the Armenian church's numbers. "The Ottomans in general were good counters," says Columbia's Dr. Garfield, but he adds that the Ottomans' population figures -- 1.5 million for the eastern part of the empire, after Dr. McCarthy's adjustments -- are suspect because a harbinger of genocide is the undercounting of the targeted group. "It's a step toward their nonpersonhood," he says. George Aghjayan, an actuary who sits on the eastern region board of the Armenian National Committee of America, has also studied Dr. McCarthy's numbers in detail. He sent me a lengthy critique by e-mail. Among his arguments: Many Armenian men traveled outside the empire for work, which would contribute to undercounting of prewar adult males; and that Dr. McCarthy's technique for estimating Armenian survivors who ended up in Russia could lead to overcounting. The bottom line, according to Mr. Aghjayan: By undercounting prewar Armenians and overcounting survivors, Dr. McCarthy would undercount the dead. An estimate of 1.5 million deaths has become the standard number in op-ed articles and news accounts of Armenian versions. That's the number on the Armenian National Institute's Web site. Rouben Adalian, director of the institute, concedes the number is an estimate that includes additional Armenian deaths related to the fallout of the original killings. He says he is confident that an estimate of more than one million "is very secure." In the academic ideal, researchers could come together at conferences and meetings and work toward a consensus figure. But there is too much venom in the air. Armenian advocacy groups and some scientists I spoke to labeled Dr. McCarthy a Turkish apologist. He, in turn, speaks dismissively of some of his critics. "It's hard to say this is scholarly debate," he told me. "It's two sides presenting their position and not talking to each other." Meanwhile, Armenian scholars charge the Turkish government with limiting access to the Ottoman archives to some favored researchers, preventing new information from emerging and possibly helping to clarify the debate. "I think 100 years from now, our debate about Armenian events will not be that different than it is today, because we have limited, conflicting information," Dr. Garfield says. Some advocates and scholars I contacted for this article said pinning down exact numbers isn't necessary. Dennis R. Papazian writes on the Web site of the Armenian Research Center at University of Michigan-Dearborn, where he serves as director: "Does it really make the actions of Turkey better if they succeeded in killing only 600,000 Armenians and not 1.5 million? …In any case, it was genocide." Are death tolls from today's conflicts bound to be disputed a century hence? It's a question worth asking in light of the continued Armenian controversy. Les Roberts, a research associate at Johns Hopkins University who has worked on counting the dead in Congo, Rwanda and Sierra Leone, painted a dismaying picture of current efforts. In an e-mail from Afghanistan, he mentioned two key challenges. First, "No one can agree on how to define the death toll from a conflict, just the deaths from intentional violence or all those that died because the violence occurred." (The Armenian numbers include both.) And, secondly, "No one is charged or expected to count the deaths from conflict. The [international Committee of the Red Cross] avoids the topic so that they can work with all sides. The press is bad at it. The public health crowd is very adverse to being killed so they rarely estimate deaths until conflicts are over." But Columbia's Dr. Garfield was more hopeful, saying that methods have improved markedly; researchers, for instance, survey refugees in camps during ongoing conflicts about mortality among friends and neighbors. "I am optimistic about our ability to provide people with a better base," Dr. Garfield says. "It makes it harder to lie."
  7. veee, pa yes? eeeh, kyanki ti penya, ver ne uspetis iral, remi opzdatis iral.... de lyav, huva inch stacal. Mer simpatishni txan huva mehenk... mi lyav axchik charek uryan hete... mer shenumu mi hat axchik ka, lya kukla ini. Mazeri kruznot, ashekri sev-sev, onkeri mok-mok, toshikneri bol-bol, proshnikner nel, ly kuchur caxek ini, butonchik. Menyak min' peni sirumchum, ver cuvama "baaaaaabooooo", gudum ta, krevi skisvala... kuchur' lyachara..... 14 tarekana, kak raz psikveli vaxta. Intersni pobideteli huva mer txorancuc. Kani tarekana. Menyak kaftar chini. Michev 20 tarekan lyava. Tranic heto orish kandidatka ka mer shenymi. 50 tarekan, de uryan hamar heto kpatmem.... Mehenk harkavera gidyak huva mer princi.... interesni penya, prosto.
  8. ёлки палки..... а на очереди стою на Абовяна. Там я видел дома старые и рухляди, но мне сказали, что этим людям дают новенькие квартиры в микрорайонах, где именно не знаю. Знакомая семья из двух пожилых людей, пересилились тоже и очень довольны были. Раньше жили в старом дворе, за Детским Миром сразу. У них не квартира была, а берлога. Теперь они рады. Хотя центр города менять на другие районы, конечно потеря. Но для пожилых людей, какая им разница.... Не знаю.... неужели из за таких как я страдают люди? Ереванские, расскажите с первых рук новости оттуда. Какие льготы имеют люди кто подлежит переселению в микрорайоны? Пожалуйста, сообщите.
  9. 1. Политическое урегулирование вопроса Арцаха. Может ли быть территория НКР предметом политических торгов? (территория НКР включает в себя Кашатахский и прочие районы) Нет! Торгу такие вопросы не подлежат. 2. Взаимоотношения с Турцией. Поддерживате ли Вы политику правительства РА? Поддерживаю политику РА как налаживание отношений без предворительных условий. 3. Взаимоотношения с Грузией. Необходимо ли настаивать на автономном статусе Джавахка? Должен ли Джавахк быть в центре армянской политики? В центре внимания нет, но закидывать это на верхнюю полку тоже не следует. Мне кажется внимание какое сегодня уделяет РА вопросу, сбалансировано. 4. Взаимоотношения с Россией. Поддерживаете ли Вы идею полномасштабного стратегического партнерства? На данный момент да. 5. Взаимоотношения с США. Поддерживаете ли Вы курс правительства РА? Да. РА на сегодня так же сбалансировано ведёт политику между Россией и США. Иногда мне кажется, что Армения просто наблюдает за танго двух стран со стороны. 6. Интеграция в Евросоюз. Является ли она для Вас приоритетным вопросом долгосрочной политической ориентации Армении? Моё личное мнение, это лучший вариант из 4, 5 и 6 пунктов и в политической и в экономической плоскости.
  10. Ну что, в этой теме все точки расставлены над "i" и слабые, безпочвенные попытки Aqop утонули в глубинах общечеловеческих ценностях и нашей критике. Я рад, что только один Aqop оказался заблудшим сыном, а может просто проходил мимо и решил отметиться. Радует одно, опять же и всегда же, что мы объединились. А это сейчас очень важно. Очень. Важнее хлеба ....
  11. только увидил эту тему.... интересно..... только когда прочитал название, почему то турецкие бани вспомнил...
  12. Па асумем, асум, лсонох чка.... Русери пити мез асен, ханцу пень хасканак? Лох haykakan форумнери пити мианан ев вер ти пенера инюм, миамканиц урурь нехет капнен ев лажа чи анен. Вер харцер как индз иря зянктувецек, e-mail харкецек. Арцахи консулатум ингерикисин горцанум ев карохин ти харцерин любой момент падасханен.... Нужно создать союз всех амрянских форумов. С каждого сайта по пару представителей, кто чаще всех бывает на сайте. Это поможет объедимить не только усилия в скрытых форумах, но так же для коммуникации между сайтами в таких вопросах как сегодня и намного важнее... Может разошлём это предложение с нашими двумя-тремя представителями по армянским сайтам с запросом. Таких людей, кто "нет" за ответ не примут....
  13. Karmir jan, tvoi mashina v sosednem dvore ©...... Ya zhe yasno skazal, chto mne oficial'no skazali, chto eto viz-viznyak. Esli ya svoe mnenie skazal bi to ne veril bi, no ya tebe onformaciy dal, a neosebyatinu. Delaite chto xotite, prosto napominaete mne trmvai bez tormozov vniz po spusku....
  14. Ya ne ponyal. .. . Ya chto prozrachni stal? Ya zhe napisal chto vse eto parasha, zachem vi eshe tut pishite chto-to, sporite?
  15. Nikakie pis'ma ne posilaite, ne pozor'tes'. Eto ne tot variant, chtobi tak reagirovat'.
  16. Tolko chto pozvonil v Artsakhskoe posol'stvo i menya vislushali kak duraka kogda ya ix sprosil ob etom zayavlyanii mamed'yarova. Vse eto parasha. Oficial'noe zayavlenie. Poka Prezident Artsakha ne syadet za stol peregovorov nikakie zayavlyaniya mamed'yarov ili dazhe Kocharyana sili ne imeet. A eto moe oficialnoe zayavlenie!
  17. Gorn jan, na nashem saite eti novosti tozhe obsuzhdaytsya tol'ko v polozhennom dlya takix novostei meste razdel Politika tema - Pomoinaya Yama. Fidelio K, ya ne dumay chto Berdzor budet sdan turkam, a eto uzhe ne 7 raionov. Shaumyan do six por pod ix kontrolem i ne menyat' 6 ostal'nix raionov na odin Shaumyanovski budet dibilizmom. Nu a status samo soboi razumeetsya dlya Artsakha, kak edinstvennoe trebovanie i ideya za kotoruy i otdavali nashi geroi svoi zhizni i za kotoruy postradala vsya nasha naciya.
  18. Rouna, menyak kez hete im simpatishni nikari vistavlyatum anum.... En el erku hat Hasmik harke li please. Ev ase ver uryan animi indz shat tura kyam, sirun anun une.... et potxalimash che...
  19. Симошe обрезание сделали на семь дней.....
  20. Shenyаtsi

    Offtop

    Эти новости параша. Если Президент на такое пойдёт я буду в Ереване первый брать штурмом Президентский Дом. Но я уверен, что Кочарян не из соломы сшит. Он на себе испытал все "ласки" той войны. Он знает что делает.
  21. Сергей, Иран была наша кислородная подушка в тяжёлые времена... и единственная. Параллели с турко-еврейской дружбой проводить тут неуместно. Совсем в разных плоскостях. Блин как я с нетерпением жду, чтобы турки нож в спину засунули Израилю или Израиль в один прекрасный день их кинул как щенков. Тогда посмотрели на рожи обоих "брателлов". Но это бесайд зе пойнт.... Серёж джан, ты наверное русский не хорошо говориш или я не хорошо написиваю. Я же уже писал, что политический фактор и ежу понятен, мне противен тот факт, что убийца турок брат еврею, потому что он не убийца еврея, но ярмянина. А вот убийца-немец это редиска которого осудила вся мировая общественность, потому что он убийца еврея, а не армянина. А вот еврей (под евреем имеется ввиду офицальный Израиль) как то может разделить убийц на хороших и плохих. Вот я и мучаюсь, так как до меня это не доходит. Ну а если всем вокруг, едрённые политические очки дороже, человеческих понятий, тогда трахать весь мир с его правилами, с Крохой сыном и его отцом с его вопросами "что такое хорошо и плохо", давайте просто растить сильную армию и тогда найдуться губы, чтобы целовать нам задницы.... и много. С волками жить по волчьи выть, так Сергей джан? Ты же к этому клонишь постоянно, что выгода, кто-то кому-то нужен, сильным мира надо в засос целовать задницы и плевать на всё человеческое..... вот поэтому и злюсь.... Акоп, я тоже позвонил своему другу в день Холокоста и сказал слова соболезнования и я тоже не покупаю турецкие товары и тем более не езжу к ним отдыхать.... и к арабам тоже не езжу. езжу только на Родину в Армению и Арцах. И при чём тут Бока с его песнями? Я чего то не догоняю.... и я не догадывался что тебе нечего сказать, я в этом уверен. О каком сраче идёт речь? Я не видел чтобы кто-то на кого-то или что-то наклал. Если ты имеешь ввиду "мазоль", то этот человек сказал что думал. Артсрун же дал ему ответ в том же стиле. Всё думаю нормально.... Артсрун, я как раз об этой статье и говорил, когда писал о том что в школьной системе Израиля вытащили с корнями упоминание о Геноциде Армян...... короче что делает АР под дудку турков, то делает и Грузия с Израилем...... всех их .... тап-ляп анем......
  22. Poetomu bilo resheno ne uchit' teme Armyanskogo GEnocida v shkolax Izrailya? I v knigax ob istorii ne imet' nichego upomyanayshie Genocid Armyan? Da davaite budem viderzhanne, Sergei jan. Ne nado lechit' tut nikog s voprosom o bol'shoi politiki. Eto i ezhu ponyatno. Prosto tak bessovestno i naglo lobizat'sya na vidu u vsex, protivn osmotret'....
  23. Vigen, ladno daa.... Etu familiy kogda slishu, srazu cirk vspominay. On kogda nibud' skazal chto-to, chto potom podverdilos'? Ya bi ubral eto ili perenes bi v temu Pomoinaya yama.....
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