Phrygian

Hello oh mighty Aryan, We are Armenians not Iranians. My best wishes to your Dravidian president.

I urgently need a good quality scan of the Bagratuni coat of arms. Does anyone know where to find one? If you have it in a book or elsewhere please hook me up.

Ba inch a? Es ho konkret qo azganuni masin chem khosum. Voncvor kniq lini. Im azganunnela turqakan armatov, chnayats shat haytni mardiq krel en ayd mer patmutyan @ndatsqum. Yes misht yerazel em pokhem Haykakan azganuni bayts de djvar ev tsanr processa.

Disclaimer: For a long time various scholars and historians erroniously considered the Bulgars that migrated from the East, settled in the Balkans and assimilated with Slavic invaders from the North to be of turkic origin. Recent research suggests that Bulgars were of Iranic stock, speaking an Indo-European tongue from Pamir, who through the course of their long trek to the West, as a direct result of barbarian attacks merely picked up some turkic elements. Old Armenian sources confirm this. http://tangra.bitex.com/eng/kalendar/2001/5.htm The first information about the Bulgarian presence in these lands was given by Mar Abas Katina. It is in the composition of Moses Horen “A History of Armenia” (book II, 6, 9). In the days of the Armenian king Arshak, the time between the reign of Artaksi II Arshak (33-20 BC) and Arshak (35-41 AD), troubles were breeding in the gorges of the great mountain of Caucasus, in the “Country of the Bulgarians”. Many of them separated and settled in the foothills of Koh (Kol), in the fertile lands of Upper (No Trees) Basian. The colonists were of the people Vlndur Bulgar Vund. The region began to be called after their leader Vanand and the settlements were named after his brothers and successors, Bulhar, Doks, Toh (Tuh), Altsek. This Bulgarian toponymy can be found in the compositions of the later Armenian historians, A. Kretatsi, J. Drashanakertatsi, M. Kalankatuatsi. At the beginning of the 4th century Vanand’s descendants fell within the evangelisation reach of the young Armenian Church. Tsar Tiran (338-350) ordered a royal suite to accompany the candidate for Catholicos, Iusik, to his accession in Cesaria. Orot, the prince of Vanand, was in the suite. When the sons of Catholicos Iusik turned unworthy of receiving the pastor’s sceptre from his own hand, the tsar sent four princes to invite the pupil of Gregory Educator, Bishop Danail. Artavan, the prince of Vanand was among them. Favstos Buzand wrote as a witness that in the process of the division of Armenia in zones of influence between Rome and Persia (387), people of “the clan of the Vanands” did not join any of the sides but retreated in the mountainous forests of Taik. Those brave people, who were ready to defend their freedom risking their life, knew only one way of communicating with other tribes and peoples – peaceful settlement and equal coexistence. At that time, the bishop of Vanand was Zorguaz who lived and served as an exemplary Christian pastor. At the end of the 4th and the beginning of the 5th century, some of the Bulgarians from Armenia migrated back to North Caucasus. The rest of the Vanand people stayed and shared the dramatic history of the Armenians. After the decree of the Persian Tsar Jezdigert II (449) to abolish Christian faith in the country, the bishops of Armenia, Georgia and Albania refused to obey. Gad, the bishop of Vanand, was one of the participants in the meeting who made that decision. Egishe, a participant in the decisive Battle of Avarai (26 May 451), tells that one of the three Christian armies was led by the Bulgarian Tatul of Vanand. The Armenian Church notifies that 1036 Christian warriors entered their names in the “book of life” on that same day. In the vacuum of power after the death of Jezdigert II (457), N. Chichraketsi united the greater part of the Armenian people and chased away the Persian troops from the country. M. Horenski notes the Bulgarian participation, “Here all people of Vanand distinguished themselves with their courage” (book III, 56). The copy of the Throne Certificate (Gahnamak) of the middle of the 5th century, which has been preserved, is a testimonial of the unification of the Bulgarians in the Armenian society. In it, among the 70 clans, the clan of the Vanands occupies the 14th place. It should be noted that 10 of the clans were considered senior and had “attributed” posts and unchangeable functions in the social and political life of Armenia. One Armenian Catholicos even has the preface “Altsek” in his name – Komitas I Altseki (651-628). ~~~ The Ancient Bulgarians from Imeon and their Neighbours 03.2001 Senior Research Associate Dr. Peter Dobrev, Bulgarian Academy of Sciences Near Mount Imeon (present day Pamyr and Hindukush), the most ancient Bulgarian land, one of the earliest agricultural civilisations of the East developed 4000-5000 years ago. It is evident from the preserved sources that the Bulgarians and their neighbouring peoples were related to this civilisation. Historical science did not possess any concrete facts about that for a long time. A valuable hand-written copy of the ancient Armenian geography “Ashharatsuits” has been found recently. In it, the Bulgarians are mentioned among the 15 old trade and craftsmanship peoples, which inhabited the area between Persia and Turkestan in the foothills of Mount Imeon. In the text, the name of the Bulgarians is mentioned second among the peoples listed which means that they were among the most outstanding and respected ethnic groups in the region. Besides them, some of the ancient Huns, whom the Armenian historians describe as a backward, undeveloped tribe, lived near Mount Imeon. That is why it is not correct to equate the Huns and the Bulgarians, as the proponents of the Huno-Bulgarian theory do. The Armenians did not possess the notion of Huno-Bulgarians. The same is true about the ancient Indian historians who describe the Bulgarians as a developed and proud people and the Huns as one of the most backward nomadic tribes. During the ages before Christ, close neighbours of the Bulgarians were the Massagets, an ancient and very powerful people which was famous for the fact that its queen Tomiris defeated the Persian king Kir. The fact that one of the most erudite Byzantine historians, Prokopius Kesar, uses the name “Massagets” as a synonym of the Kutrigurs, one of the well-known Bulgarian tribes, is indicative of the close relationship between the Bulgarians and the Massagets. Other authors like Amian Martselin consider the Massagets to be the forefathers of the Alans who were then the closest allies of the Bulgarians in Asia. It shows that the union between the Bulgarians and the Alans started as early as the time when the ancient Bulgarians lived near Mount Imeon and continued on the territory of Europe. During the ages before Christ, close neighbours of the Bulgarians were the Massagets, an ancient and very powerful people which was famous for the fact that its queen Tomiris defeated the Persian king Kir. The fact that one of the most erudite Byzantine historians, Prokopius Kesar, uses the name “Massagets” as a synonym of the Kutrigurs, one of the well-known Bulgarian tribes, is indicative of the close relationship between the Bulgarians and the Massagets. Other authors like Amian Martselin consider the Massagets to be the forefathers of the Alans who were then the closest allies of the Bulgarians in Asia. It shows that the union between the Bulgarians and the Alans started as early as the time when the ancient Bulgarians lived near Mount Imeon and continued on the territory of Europe. The Saks, who were called Shaka, were another neighbouring people of the Bulgarians of the earliest period. This great and mighty tribe once lived to the east and north of Imeon. According to the legends, Budha, also known as Shakyamuni, sprang. Little is known of the relations between the Bulgarians and the Saks. It is known though that the Saks spoke a language of the Eastern-Iranian type, which was close to the Sogdian language. They resembled the ancient Bulgarians in their outer appearance; there is information about that in the Indian sources. In the Arabic chronicles, the Bulgarians were called by two parallel names, Bulgarians and Sakalibs. When their king sent a letter to the Arab khalif, Al-Moktadir, he called himself King of the Sakalibs in order, perhaps, to highlight his connection to the famous ancient Saks. It is also known that a characteristic feature of the clothing of the Saks and the Volga Bulgarians was the tall pointed fur cap. That is shown in the Persian images and the picture of Volga Bulgaria where the tall pointed cap is called “kalansuva va al-Bulgaria” (Bulgarian cap) by the Arab writer. The Saks, who were called Shaka, were another neighbouring people of the Bulgarians of the earliest period. This great and mighty tribe once lived to the east and north of Imeon. According to the legends, Budha, also known as Shakyamuni, sprang. Little is known of the relations between the Bulgarians and the Saks. It is known though that the Saks spoke a language of the Eastern-Iranian type, which was close to the Sogdian language. They resembled the ancient Bulgarians in their outer appearance; there is information about that in the Indian sources. In the Arabic chronicles, the Bulgarians were called by two parallel names, Bulgarians and Sakalibs. When their king sent a letter to the Arab khalif, Al-Moktadir, he called himself King of the Sakalibs in order, perhaps, to highlight his connection to the famous ancient Saks. It is also known that a characteristic feature of the clothing of the Saks and the Volga Bulgarians was the tall pointed fur cap. That is shown in the Persian images and the picture of Volga Bulgaria where the tall pointed cap is called “kalansuva va al-Bulgaria” (Bulgarian cap) by the Arab writer. The information of the ancient calendar of the Sacs, which was brought to India and kept many centuries, shows that it was similar to the ancient Bulgarian calendar. In it, every year had a special name, “sal bagai”, which means commander of the year in the language of the Saks. The specific word “bagai” (commander) almost entirely matches the word “bagain” which was a war title of the ancient Bulgarians. The famous peoples of Utis, Paktis and Sogdians were also neighbours of the Bulgarians in the region of Mount Imeon. It is known that they lived there as early as 7th-6th century BC. The name Utis is mentioned by the Greek historian Herodotus among the peoples that lived the eastern most parts of the Persian Empire at the foothills of Mount Imeon. A thousand years later, the Byzantine historian Agatius Mirinei indicates another people at the same place naming it Utigurs, one of the well-known Bulgarian tribes. According to Agatius, the Utigurs, Kutrigurs and Vurugunds (probably Unogundurs) inhabited the lands on this side of Mount Imeon in Asia. Probably, this information is not misleading because even today a large tribe called Uts lives in the valleys of Hindukush in Afghanistan. The same name, Uts, is borne today by one of the tribes of the Kurds and by a small Caucasus people in Dagestan (called Uts in Caucassus and Udins in Russian). The Paktis, neighbours of the ancient Utis and Utigurs, inhabit the northern slopes of Mount Imeon today. They are called Pakto or Pashto (this is the name that the present-day Afghans call themselves). Other neighbours of the ancient Bulgarians are also known. They were the Sogdis, a large and powerful people with its own kingdom and script that inhabited the eastern parts of Mount Imeon. Their trade colonies reached as far as China. The Byzantine Emperor, Ustinian I, learned the secret of breeding the silkworm from the Sogdians. A distant descendant of this great people is the small Pamyr tribe, Jagnobs, which still lives in the valley of the river Jagnob-Darja. The Horesmians, another great people mentioned in the ancient Armenian chronicles as a neighbour of the Bulgarians, lived to the north of the Sogdians. They were tradesmen famous for their script and high culture. Their wealth was related to the fact that through the lands the route of the trade in gems and precious stones, which were extracted in Mount Imeon and transported north, passed. In ancient times, the Bulgarians were also in close contact with the Indians who lived to the south of the Old Bulgarian fatherland. According to the “Machabharate”, the ancient Indian epic, the Bulgarians participated in the great Indian war as allies of the Indian royal clan, the Kauravs, and famed themselves as brave warriors on horseback. What are the common features, peculiarities and achievements of the large peoples that were neighbours of the ancient Bulgarians? Firstly, they all spoke languages, which belonged to the East-Iranian (Indoeuropean) type. This is true about the Masagets, the Alans who sprang from them and whose descendants were the Osetins in Caucasus, the Saks, Sogdis, Utis, Paktis and Horemsians. Their written monuments are the object of a special branch of Iranian Studies – Middle-Iranian Linguistics. Another general feature of all neighbours of the ancient Bulgarians is the fact that most of them had strong states and were occupied with trade. The Armenian geography “Ashharatsuits” says the following: “In Skitia [Central Asia] there are five countries, of which the Sogdiana and Sakastan are known. These two regions are inhabited by up to 15 peoples which are rich craftsmanship and trade peoples living in the space between Turkestan and Iran in the foothills of Mount Imai (Imeon), amongst whom there exist 43 nomadic tribes. Of the 15 peoples, one is called Massagets, after it comes the the Bulh people [bulgarians], and after it to the north-west come the Horesmians where in the Tur region the Horesmian Stone is extracted as well as the best Serdolik. Of the 43 tribes, one is called Heptal [the Huns-Eftalits], another is Alhon, the third is Valhon, and the rest of them bear such barbaric names that it is not worth mentioning them”. From this source, it is evident that the ancient Bulgarians were positioned near Mount Imeon in a varied and complex surrounding of peoples. The fact that they used to live in that particular region of the world is obvious even from their name. The Pamyr word “bulhor” means Bulgarian, a citizen of Bulgaria, in all the languages of the region. The use of the Pamyr form of the name of the Bulgarians in the “Ashharatsuits” shows that the Armenian writers got their information from a reliable and authentic source. That is why the picture presented by them is a valuable asset for throwing some light on the ancient history of the Bulgarians. As is seen from the Armenian chronicles, the Bulgarians played a remarkable role among the peoples near the Pamyr and Hindukush and participated actively in the creation of the ancient Pamyr ciilisation. In brief : The first contacts between the Bulgarian and the Armenian peoples had been made in those distant times that make difficult to distinguish between legends and reality. However, reliable sources present grounds to affirm that they date back not later II c. AD and their territory of contacts had been not only the land of historical Armenia and Bulgaria, but also the steppes of Northern Caucasus and Volga region, Asia Minor and the Balkan peninsula.

First of all, those are not real Greeks in the forum you linked to. Most Pontic Greeks are just fakes and Hellenes do not consider them Greeks. They are mixed with Caucasus natives and turks and Hellenes reject them. Their input is therefore irrelevant. Fine, I'll get you a list of books by neutral Western scholars. In fact, more will agree on that than any absurd notion of Urartians being Armenian or Minoans being Greek. I'll compile a list asap in time convenient this week. Btw the most important book ever written on the history of the Empire is The History Of The Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon. That book clearly established the fact that Eastern Romans and Greeks are two very different things. There was no Greek national consciesnous until the fall of Constantinople. No citizen called themselves a Greek or a Hellene. That's a step forward. I have already done this. In a Greek neo-Nazi forum. You will be surprised on how much we agreed. I'll send you a transcript with a link as well.

The role played by Greeks in the emire is by no means more significant, au contraire, for several centuries the Armenian role was greater. Granted, it was neither Greek or Armenian by name, it was Roman. Furthermore, though some referred to Byzantines as Greeks it was in the same vein as calling Germans Latins. Merely a religious designation. Ukrainian is a very modern concept. They are virtually the same people. Any Ukrainian can be a Russian and vice versa, the differneces are subjective. I will send you a big fat cheque if you find me a book about the Eastern Roman Empire without the word Armenian in it. I have discussed this with many Greeks, several of my exes were Greek and many of my friends are Greek. They seem to know more about Armenians of Byzantium than the average Armenian. Amen to that. As long as they're not jewish or muslim.

http://www.genocide1915.info/articles_view...pt=%86u%A1%85by The Historical and Political Dimensions of the Artsakh by Genocide1915 ( - 5/30/2004) Despite the fact that the ethnic and political changes in the Near East somehow affected the Artsakh region of Armenia, it successfully maintained its internal independence and ruling system, as well as the structure and system of social-economic development of the Armenian feudal society. For the first time Artsakh is mentioned as 'Urtekhe' or 'Urtekhini' in the cuneiform records of the so-called Urartu period of the Armenian history. According to the sources of the 1st century BC, Artsakh ('Orkhistene') is mentioned as one of the Armenian provinces. "The Armenian provinces include Favnena, as well as Kombisena and Orkhistena, and Orkhistena provides the largest number of riders', notes Strabon. Aghatangelos (5th century) testifies that the winter residence of the Armenian kings was in Utik Province, northwards Artsakh. In the 5th century Artsakh is mentioned as 'Pokr Siunik' ('Syunik Minor'). According to Movses Khorenatsi, after young Grigoris died in the field Vatnyan his deacons took his body to Syunik Minor and buried him in the village of Amaras. Yeghishe writes that after Avarayr Battle in 451 many of the Armenians who had revolted against Persia ran away and found shelter 'in the southern and impassable lands of Tmorik and the forests of Artsakh'. Finally, according to "Ashkharatsuyts" ("Armenian Geography", 7th century), "Great Armenia is divided into 15 provinces, including ?9. Artsakh, 10.Siunik, ? 12. Utik?". In the works of the Hellenic-Roman and Armenian authors it is directly indicated that the River Kura was the border between Armenia and Caucasus Albania. Utik and Artsakh situated at the right bank of the Kura were part of Armenia. Claudius Ptolomeus wrote: "From the north Great Armenia borders on part of Kolkhida, Iveria and Albania, and the border passes along the River Kura". Byuzand (5th century) wrote: 'He (Mushegh Mamikonyan) established the border of his country (Armenia) and Albania along the River Kura, as it formerly used to be". The Maskut king Sanesan 'crossed his border, the big River Kura and invaded into the country of Armenia". The political, social-economic and cultural issues of Artsakh are more expansively described in "History of Aluank Country" by the Armenian author Movses Daskhurantsi (10th century). From the Arabic dominion through the re-establishment of the Armenian statehood under the leadership of the Bagratids (885), Artsakh constituted part of the administrative unit "Armenia", and during the reign of the Bagratids was included in it. Starting from the 10th century Artsakh is mentioned in the historical works and sources by the name of "Khachen". During the ruling of Prince Sakhel Smbatian the center of the principality, i.e., the fortress of Khachen, became the princely residence. Like before, Khachen Principality remained one of the regions of Armenia. The Byzantine emperor Constantine addressed his letters to the prince of Khachen with the inscription "To Prince of Khachen, Armenia". The name "Karabagh" is first mentioned in the 14th century. Geographically, it corresponded to the territory of Khachen principality. "Today it is called Karabagh and Mugan", a Georgian historian wrote. The sources testify that Mountainous Karabagh was one of the original provinces of Armenia regardless of the different names assigned to the territory in various periods of the history, and the Armenians have always been the aborigine population of Nagorno Karabagh. As an eyewitness, Strabon evidences that during the reign of the Armenian king Artashes I (189-160 ) in Armenia "nowadays all these peoples speak the same language", i.e., Armenian. Stepanos Siunetsi, an Armenian poet and grammarian (VII-VIII centuries), indicating about the existence of the Armenian dialects in Armenia, wrote: "And for mastering the language one should be familiar with all dialects, such as the dialect of Korchaik and Tauk, Khut, and Fourth Armenia, and Sper, and Siunik, and Artsakh". One of the Arabic sources evidences that not long before the Mongol invasions when the troops of Jelal ad-Din intruded into Transcaucasus, the Artsakh Armenian prince Hasan-Jalal, the founder of the famous Gandzasar Monastery (1240) was released from the threats of Sharaf al-Mulk who was moving to Transcaucasus for collecting taxes. The prince paid the lump sum tax and set free the Moslem prisoners: "(Sharaf al-Mulk) stopped near Khachen Fortress where Jelal ad-Din, the nephew (the son of his sister) Ivaneh al-Kurjhi was residing. Sharaf al-Mulk assailed him with threats until an agreement was reached under the condition that 10,000 dinars would be paid to Sharaf al-Mulk and 700 Moslem prisoners would be released that had been captured a various periods. Among the prisoners there were some elderly people that had been taken hostage in their childhood." Despite the fact that during the period of the Mongol invasions (1236-1350) the Artsakh rulers obeyed the Mongols and participated with their armies in the military campaigns against the Seljuk tribes, they successfully maintained their internal independence. Khokhanaberd Fortress was the center of the Artsakh Principality (near Gandzasar Monastery). In the 1380s' Transcaucasus was attacked by the hordes of Temur-Lenk (Lenk-Temur) from Central Asia, and before 1405 Artsakh, as well as the entire region suffered from the consequences of the disastrous attacks of Timurids who conquered basically the lowlands and more fertile areas of the Armenian uplands. Hans Schiltberger witnesses in his "Travel": "I also spent much time in Armenia. After the death of Tamerlan I was brought to his son who reigned over two kingdoms in Armenia. This son of his by the name of Shah-Roh was in the habit of spending his winter in a large plateau called Karabag which was notable for its good pastures. It is irrigated by the River Kura which is also called Tigris, and the best silk is obtained from the nearby areas of the river banks. Although the plateau is situated in Armenia, it belongs to pagans to who the Armenian population is obliged to pay taxes. The Armenians always treated me well, because I was a German, and, in general, they are well disposed towards the Germans or as they call as, the Nimitses. They taught me their language and gave their "Pater noster" to me. As opposed to several other regions of Armenia which were under the rule of Turkey and Iran in the XVI-XVIII centuries and where the feudal class was basically devoid of hereditary feudal rights, the Artsakh and Siunik meliks (princes) maintained their relative independence and domains, especially in the mountainous regions, and had their regular armies. As the result of the feudal division of Artsakh Principality in the XIV-XV centuries around ten Armenian principalities (melikdoms) were formed in the region which were known by the names of their domains in the XVI-XVIII centuries: 1. Giulistan Melikdom with its center situated in Orekavan (Talish) and the fortress of Giulistan, stretched between the rivers of Kurak and Tartar. 2. Jraberd Melikdom 3. Khachen Melikdom 4. Varanda Melikdom 5. Dizak Melikdom 6. Melikdom of Tsar (Karvachar-Kelbajar) 7. Kashatagh Melikdom. In the XVI-XVII centuries the catholicos of Gandzasar was the uniting link for the successive rulers-princes of Artsakh. He often represented the meliks in the negotiations with the neighboring states. Thus, according to the Georgian historian Parsadan Gorgijanidze, in 1631, during the negotiations with the Georgian king Teimuraz I the catholicos of Gandzasar was the first to offer the 40,000 Artsakh army for the joint military campaign against the Persian supremacy. This is not the only evidence of the significant role of the catholicii of Gandzasar. In 1672 the catholicos of Gandzasar Peter who, despite the clerical traditions, called himself "the catholicos of Armenia" (this title was the prerogative of the Echmiadzin catholicos) for the mere purpose of emphasizing the ethnic origin of his flock rather than challenging the existing hierarchy in the Armenian church, requested the Russian Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich that he should protect the Armenian people and support the Armenian delegates who were on a visit to Moscow. The negotiations on liberation of Armenia from the foreign yoke initiated with the European countries were mainly based on the military forces of the Armenian meliks of Artsakh and Siunik. Israel Ori and Archimandrite Minas were the diplomatic representatives in Germany and Russia (their portraits painted by the famous Italian artist Giovanni Antonio Pellegrini are still preserved in Munich). Yesai Hasan-Jalalian, the catholicos of Gandzasar, and Nerses, the catholicos of the northern regions of Artsakh were also actively involved in the written negotiations with the rulers of foreign states. In particular, Yesai Hasan-Jalalian wrote appeals to Peter I for several times. Owing to the joint efforts of the Artsakh meliks attacks of the Ottoman troops were successfully confronted during 1722-1730. It was the period when Turkey took advantage over the weakened Sefevid state and the occupation of Iran by the Afghan troops, intruded into Transcaucasus and occupied Georgia, the Ararat Valley and the region of Azerbaijan in Persia with the center Tebriz ( Details in: Region in Dimensions ). The regions around the Caspian Sea (Derbent, Baku, Gilian) were occupied by Russia. The Armenian regions of Artsakh and Siunik fought relentlessly for independence and more than once the Turkish troops had to retreat from Artsakh incurring with major losses. The occupation of Transcaucasus by the Turkish troops which lasted ten years (1723-1732) was fatal for those Armenian-inhabited regions which were not controlled by the forces of the Artsakh meliks. In his letter to the Georgian King Vakhtang VI (dated February 5, 1725) Archimandrite Martiros from Derbent gives the list of those villages which were destroyed and forcefully turned into the Islamic religion during the Turkish occupation. The situation deteriorated due to the involvement of Ajhi Davud, a Turkish ally, in the political issues. According to I.G. Herber, who described the existing situation in 1728, "There lived more Armenians in Kabal than in the other districts, and did not suffer from the assaults of the offenders since they were rich and pay off big money to Khoja Davud and Surkhai. In 1727 the former khan in Shemakh appointed his son a satrap in Kabal who treated the Armenians with cruelty and tried to turn them into Mohammedan religion, and since they refused to disavow Christianity and withstood all tortures, they were forcefully driven into the mosque and cut. Then Khoja Davud ordered to announce that this was done against his will, and those who come to him with gifts will be free to confess their own religion. This is what the Armenians did and were permitted by the Khan to obey to their laws. They continued going to the church, but the Mohammedan clergy became angry with them and imposed fines on them as the apostates and stripped them from everything and again drove them to the mosques, and, thus, the Armenians in Kabal have forcefully become Mohammedans". This fact is confirmed in "The Description of the Locations Neighboring Georgia" by the Georgian King Irakli II: "The Sheki Khan was known by the name of Ajhi Chalab, and his father was an Armenian clergyman ( cf.: Abdul-Latif-Effendi, "History of Sheki Khans", Original and Translation, translated from the Turkish language by A. Dadashev, Baku, Publication of the Society of Investigation and Study of Azerbaijan, 1926, p. 5), but Ajhi Chalab confessed the Mohammedan religion and by some tricks became the ruler of Sheki which formerly used to be under the control of the Kakheti King, but was forcedly taken over by the Persian Shah Abaz I, and today many of the residents of Sheki openly follow the Armenian law and our Greek law with consternation". In 1734-1735 Takhmasp-kuli Khan (later known as Shah Nadir) was obliged to recognize the independence of the Artsakh meliks in their domains in the view of their adamant confrontation, as well as for the purpose of attracting allies. Thus, he acknowledged one of the noble meliks, Yegan as a Beklarbek, the head of Khamsa (the five Armenian melikdoms). Melik Yegan died in 1744 and Aram became his successor. However, the latter ruled only for a one-year period. Melik Aram was substituted by his brother Yesai who ruled for 33 years. There is an inscription on the tombstone of Melik Yesai: "This is the tomb of Melik Yesai, the son of the great melik Yegan. He was appointed a prince by Shah Nadir. He ruled over the country of Dizak for 33 years, accomplished many feats and had numerous victories over the disbeliveers. He was more courageous and decent than any of his ancestors. He died at the age of 61, in the summer of 1230 (according to the Armenian calendar), (1781) on October 2...". In his narrative about Karabagh in "Description" Irakli II mentions: "Khamsa constitutes the dominion and the entire population follows the Armenian rule. Also, it is the residence of the patriarch. And when the Persian shah died, a person of the Mohammed religion (i.e., Panah) of Jivanshir descent, took the power. There is an old fortress in the domain of Khamsa which was taken with slyness, and many times we had to fight against the people of Jivanshir, but with the divine help we always defeated them. In the view of several factors, presently a peace agreement has been concluded with them. The Armenians have a large fortress, mountainous landscape covered with forests, and, as a matter of fact, their fields are fertile. The Jivanshir army consists of 2500 people, while the army of the Armenians consists of 4500 ("Documents and other historical materials of the XVIII century related to Georgia" Vol. I, from 1768 to 1774. Edited by A. ?. Tsagareli. St. Petersburg, 1891, pp. 434-435). In 1783, following the conclusion of the Russian-Georgian tractate, Irakli II presented to the Russian Tsar the list of the domains existing in Georgia and the neighbouring areas and their coats of arm. "The coat of arms of Georgia - a mountain with two arrows. The coat of arms of Kakhetia - Great Martyr Georgi on the horseback. The coat of arms of Yerevan - Mount Ararat with the Arch The coat of arms of Gianja - a flame with three tongues The coat of arms of Atabashi - a lake and a monastery The coat of arms of Kazak - a hand with a spear The coat of arms of Borchalu - a sward The coat of arms of Shamshadil - weapon The coat of arms of Shirvan - wolf The coat of arms of Shakon - fox. The original contains the signatory: IRAKLI". Although the coats of arms of Karabagh Khanate and Armenian meliks are not included in the list compiled by Irakli, other sources testify that that the Armenian meliks also had their coats of arms. The coat of arms of one of the meliks of Varanda contains Armenian monograms. A cupola of church with a cross is pictured above the head of the eagle. This is indicative of the fact that all of them had the status of independent political formations. In 1783 Russia had serious intentions to re-establish the Armenian statehood on the basis of Artsakh Oblast and to dissolve Karabagh khanate which was formed with the assistance of one of the Armenian meliks about 30 years ago. The plan was reported to Yekaterina II by Prince Grigori Potiomkin: "Without having the approval of Your Majesty, I passed the resolution on Ibrahim Khan of Shushi to Lieutenant General Potiomkin which calls for obedience. It needs to be considered in order to pass his dominion which is inhabited mainly by Armenians to national administration, and, thus, re-establish a Christian state in Asia, as promised by Your Majesty to the Armenian meliks though me". Karabagh, like Georgia, incurred major losses in 1795 due to the destructive military offence of the Persian troops under the commandment of Agha Mamad Khan, ?in the Karabagh domain there lived about 40,000 Armenian households". In 1805 Ibrahim Khan began the negotiations with Russia under the pressure of the Armenian meliks and for the purpose of keeping his power. As the result, he was obliged to become the subject of Russia. However, in the following year he affiliated with Persia, because his had serious concerns about losing the power and guaranteeing future security for his family. For such action he was killed in 1806. A. Bakikhanov wrote: "Ibrahim Khan of Karabagh, who established friendly relations with the Persians, asked for assistance in his attempts to get rid of the Russian supremacy. His son Abiul-Fet-Khan moved with his troops from Kapan to Shusha. Abbas-Mirza crossed the Khudaperi bridge (across the Arax). Major Lisanevich, the commander of the Russian troops in Shushi at the midnight of June 2, 1221 (1806) charged against Ibrahim Khan who at that time resided with his family and servants in his camp behind the fortress. The Russians killed him and his wife, son, daughter, the sister of Selim Khan of Sheki and many of his servants and followers". In the official Russian Bulletin "Names and Provinces of Five Armenian Meliks" the following situation is pictured as of the moment before Artsakh was connected to Russia: "Their whole domain is called Karabag. The first melik is Jimshid, the son of melik Shahnazar whose province is called Varand and the fortress is Shusha. His son and a yuzbasha assist him. The second melik is Abov, the son of melik Joseph whose province is called Ikirmieort and the fortress is Giulistan. Abov drove out the major part of his population from that province, seeking for the mercy of His Majesty and settled them in Georgia under the protection of the Georgian King whose nephew melik Piridon is here together with the aforementioned melik Jimishid. The third melik is Rostom, the vicegerent of melik Mechlum, the son of melik Adam, and his province is called Charabert. The fourth melik is Abas, the son of melik Bakhtam, and his province is Duzag. The fifth melik is Alla-verdi, the son of melik Mirzakhan, and his province is called Khachen. The aforementioned meliks have yuzbashes, i.e., generals, in their service. Some of these generals receive this position by the right of succession while the others are appointed by the meliks as a recognition of their outstanding service". In the 19th century Shushi , the center of Artsakh ( V. Potto, "First Volunteers of Karabagh During the Period of Establishment of the Russian Dominion" (Melik-Vani and Hakop-Yuzbashi Atabekovs), Tiflis, 1902; V. Potto, "Heroic Defense of Shushi Fortress", Publication 2, St. Petersburg, 1903) became the third largest town in Transcaucasus where the Armenian culture and education flourished. Shushi had a major impact on the development of culture of the entire Transcaucasus, including the Tatar (later "Azerbaijani") culture. The prospering of the town and the region was interrupted for a long period on March 23, 1920 when the Turkish troops entered into the town and perpetrated the bloody massacre of the Armenian population, destroyed the town. Thus, the Turks pursued the goal of achieving the quantitative prevalence of the Turkish population over the Armenians. The barbaric action of 1920 left its traces for the following years. In addition, the tragic event became the reason why Shushi no longer existed as the center of NKAO, and instead a new town, Stepanakert, was erected. 1918-1920 marked as one of the severe periods in the ancient history of the Karabagh Armenians. It was during these years that Artsakh became the subject of "territorial disagreements". In spring of 1918, after the conclusion of the Brest Agreement Turkey actively pushed its aggressive policy in Transcaucasus and due to its efforts, the Transcaucasus Seim declared about the independence of Transcaucasus from Russia. Shortly thereafter Turkey occupied the major part of Armenia, and only after the defeat at Sardarapat Battle was obliged to temporarily stop its advancement in the direction of Baku and the Caspian Sea. On May 26, 1918 the Transcaucasus Seim promulgated about self-dissolution and each of the national factions in the Seim declared about the reinstitution of their national statehood. Thus, three democratic republics were established in Transcaucasus. Unlike Armenia and Georgia, for the first time in the history the state of Azerbaijan appeared in the political map of Transcaucasus which did not exist previously. The name for the Moslem population of East Transcaucasus was taken from the terminology of the Iranian state which had the respective region with its center Tebriz. In the 16th-18th centuries the Persian vicegerents were responsible for the fiscal affairs of the entire Transcaucasus which was the subject of Iran (Persian Documents of the Matenadaran. Vol. II, Issue I. Compiled by A. D. Papazian, Yerevan, Publication of the Academy of Sciences of Arm SSR, 1968, pp. 345-348 ) . However, since during the period from May through July, 1918 the power was in the hands of the Baku Commune (headed by Stepan Shahumian), the Azerbaijani government based in Gandzak (Gianja) until the Turkish troops occupied Baku. As a matter of fact, the defense forces of Baku basically constituted Armenians. In September, 1918 the members of the Baku Commune were executed. With the assistance of England Turkey successfully strengthened its position in Baku and the establishment of the new Turkish-Azerbaijani state was initiated. The Turks tried to expand the borders of the newly established state at the cost both the Armenian and Iranian territories. The Caucasus Tatars themselves were puzzled by the assignment of the name "Azerbaijan". In 1925 Academician V. V. Bartold was asked the following question at one of his classes in the University of Baku: "Under the name of Azerbaijan the Persian Azerbaijan with the center of Tebriz. In this respect do we have the right to call this country Azerbaijan. Or is it more appropriate to use the name Shirvan?" Academician Bartold gave the following answer: "Shirvan was never used in the sense that it encompassed the territory of the present Azerbaijani Republic. Shirvan covers a small area with the main town of Shemakha. Towns like Giunja or others, etc did not ever constitute part of Shirvan. The name Arran is the most appropriate term for all the regions incorporated in the Azerbaijani Republic. However, the name Azerbaijan is chosen because it was anticipated that the Persian Azerbaijan and this country would be merged into one state since the compositions of their populations are almost identical. Therefore, the name Azerbaijan was assigned to the republic?" (V. V. Bartold, "Collection of Works", Vol. II, Part I, Moscow, 1963, p. 703 ). After the Mousafats came to power they adopted the ideology and policy of nationalism of Young Turks and Pan-Turkism, and had far-reaching pretensions to Nagorno Karabagh, Zangezur and Nakhichevan for ensuring the direct connection between Turkey and the newly promulgated Azerbaijan. Due to these pretensions which were devoid of any historical-ethnographic grounds, regular inter-national conflicts. Until 1921 Azerbaijan failed to hold possession of these territories, and only after the conclusion of the Russian-Turkish agreement on March 16, 1921 in Moscow Turkey achieved the disconnection of Nakhichevan from Armenia and its inclusion into the administrative system of Azerbaijan, although Nakhichevan did not even border on Azerbaijan. Under the Resolution of the Caucasus Bureau of the Central Committee of the Russian Communist Party (of Bolsheviks) of July 5, 1921 the same actions were taken with respect of Nagorno Karabagh. The resolution on the status of Karabagh was definitely taken as the result of the subjective judgements and was devoid of any objective and clearly substantiated grounds. On June 3, 1921 the Caucasus Bureau of the RCP(B) promulgated the Resolution on the connection of Nagorno Karabagh with Armenia, and the resolution was approved on July 4, 1921. Nevertheless, on July 5 the resolution was revised and a decision was taken on passing Karabagh to Azerbaijan along with granting broad autonomy and the administrative center of Shushi. Nevertheless, the leaders of Azerbaijan did not agree to assigning even administrative-territorial autonomy to Nagorno Karabagh. After the two years' deferment, on July 4, 1923 the Presidium of the Central Operating Committee of Soviets of Azerbaijan has obliged under the pressure of the Caucasus Bureau to promulgate a resolution on the establishment of Nagorno Karabagh Autonomous Oblast. Thus, after Turkey took control over Transcaucasus (1918-1920), it succeeded in setting up a sound foundation for its far-reaching intentions. Therefore, it is not surprising why nowadays Turkey runs a firm anti-Armenian policy and why Armenia is still in blockage. Turkey's policy is targeted at providing any kind of support to Azerbaijan in its attempts to subdue Artsakh, the very region of Armenia which was the symbol and warrant of independence and state autonomy of Armenia throughout the period from the 13th to the 19th century, especially after the breakup of the Kilikia Kingdom in 1375. The synopsis of the aforementioned facts and testimonies is given by V. Potto, one of the competent and objective investigators of the history of Karabagh: "Among the remnants of the previously prospering Armenian kingdom of Karabagh which was under the control of Persia (East Transcaucasus was entirely under the control of Iran until its connection with Russia in 1813) only in one domain the patrimonial appanages of the Armenian meliks were preserved. They covered the area from the Arax to Kurak-chai, about 20 versts from Gianja, the present Yelizavetpol. In Artsakh, or Lowland Karabagh these domains included Dizak, Baranda, Khachen, Charopert and Giulistan (Igirmi-Dort) which constituted the Karabagh dominion, as stated in the old Russian sources. There was only one major melikdom, Keshtakh, in the mountainous part of Karabagh, Siunik or Zangezur. It was surrounded with other minor melikdoms, and the area stretching towards the River Arax was mainly inhabited by the Tatar nomads. In the view of the downfall and total destruction of the Armenian kingdom the rulers of these domains, i.e., the meliks, were able by their own efforts to maintain the right of succession and even to preserve until the beginning of the 19th century the political system which was set up here since the time of Persian royal dynasty of Sefovids. As the vassals of Perisa, they received their rights of succession by the Persian shahs and paid contribution to them, but instead, they maintained their independence in the domestic administration of their lands, they had their court and punishment system, their fortresses and even army which protected the region from the Lezgins and Turks" ( V. Potto, "The First Volunteers of Karabagh in the Period of Establishment of the Russian Dominion" ).

But who made Bagratuni Armenia the sole representative of Armenians? It was just another Armenian Kingdom among many others, a weak one at that. Unlike every other Armenian house, they chose to succumb to Arab rule. Bagratunis were by far not the best we had. I have much more respect for the Kingdom of Vaspurakan. It always had a considerable Armenian population. Lesser Armenia never ceased to be a part of it until Manzikert. It was a haven for Chalcedonian Armenians as well as regular loyalists. The Armenian presence simply increased from the time of Justinian until its demise. In conclusion, I take credit for Byzantium just as much as any other Armenian Kingdom, Principality or Feudal state. I have no bias towards, Chalcedonians, non-Chalcedonians or even Paulikians. To me they were all Armenian.

What is the accurate definition? The person that Hellenized the Roman Empire and made Greek the official language because it was the lingua franca was Armenian. Heraclius, the son of the Armenian Exarch of Africa. Open Brittanica and read. Second of all, what Greeks? There were no such people known as Greeks! Greek speaking people of the empire called themselves Romanoi (Romans), they were of many backgrounds. "For almost five hundred years, the Armenians played an important role in the political, military and administrative life of the Byzantine empire... During the early part of this period, in the 7th and 8th centuries, when the empire was struggling for its very existence, they helped a good deal in fighting its enemies. But their role was even more important in the 9th and 10th centuries when, as soldiers, administrators and emperors, they dominated the social, military and political life of the empire, whose greatness in largely due to them. Indeed, their role was so important in this period that these two centuries of the Byzantine empire might well be called Greco-Armenian: "Greco" because, as always, their civilization was Greek, "Armenian" because most of the people who directed the empire's destiny and provided most of the forces to defend it were either Armenians or men of Armenian origin". (The Armenians in the Byzantine Empire, p. 57). Peter Charanis, Byzantine scholar

A prichem tut Greki? The Empire was Greco-Armenian. The Empire was ruled by Armenians in 1045, when Ani was taken. Contemporary chronicles record that during the Battle of Ani the soldiers on both Roman and Bagratid sides were Armenian. The overwhelming majority of the generals and strategs were Armenians. Even after the fall of Ani. Hell one of the main Armenian generals, Philaretus Brachamus was the first one to create an Armenian principality from Cilicia to Edessa. Oshin and Tatoul were also Roman generals. It was more like a civil war. Besides, the blame cannot lay on the Empire alone. As by the time Seljuks advanced further, all Armenian fedual states were fighting eachother already.

"армянские памятники в Иране, арабских странах" Зачем? Нам то что? В наших территориях мало памятников?

Arsen, principi xndir chi. Miak lav ban@ en a vor qo azganuna ev dra nman myus azganunner@ hishatsnum en vor inch qak i mech enq eghel 600 tari, en huysov vor nor serund@ naxnineri sxalner ch@krkni.

ԹԵՀՐԱՆ, 12 ՍԵՊՏԵՄԲԵՐ, ՆՈՅՅԱՆ ՏԱՊԱՆ: Սեպտեմբերի 9-ին, ժամը 23:00-ին մոտ Թեհրանի «Արարատ» մարզավանի այգուն մոտակա պողոտայում երեք պարսիկների հետ վիճաբանության ժամանակ սպանվել է հայ պատանի Միրո Բեգիջանյանը: Հանցագործները ձերբակալվել են իրավապահ մարմինների կողմից: Դժբախտ պատահարի հարցը հետապնդում են ԻԻՀ խորհրդարանի հյուսիսային իրանահայության պատգամավոր Գեւորգ Վարդանյանը, իրավապահ մարմինները, Թեհրանի Հայոց թեմական խորհուրդը եւ Հայ մշակութային «Արարատ» կազմակերպությունը (ՀՄԱԿ): Պատահարի կապակցությամբ Հայ մշակութային «Արարատ» կազմակերպությունը սեպտեմբերի 10-ի Համահայկական խաղերը չեղյալ է հայտարարել: Միրո Բեգիջանյանի մահվան լուրը ոչ միայն ցնցել է իրանահայ համայնքին, այլեւ լայն արձագանք է գտել իրանական մամուլում: ARMENIAN BOY KILLED IN TEHRAN TEHRAN, SEPTEMBER 12, ARMENPRESS: Police in Tehran have opened investigation into a brutal murder of a 15 year-old Armenian boy, who was killed by four ethnic Iranians on September 8 evening in downtown Tehran. The squabble between the Armenian boy, Miro Begijanian and Iranians erupted when he was going back home from the official opening of Armenian Sport Olympiad in Tehran, an annual event held by the local Armenian community. According to eyewitnesses, the Armenian boy returned bad language from the four Iranians, but the latter stopped his car and attacked him by batons beating him to death. The attackers were arrested by police. Armenian members of Iran's parliament visited the family of the killed boy promising that the attackers would be punished. The murder forced organizers of the Olympiad to end them before schedule

30% nalog+straxovka

У меня нету проблем с окончанием, если Петросян. Bayc erb -yan/ian ere@ mtan himnakanum 19-rd darum masnagitutyuni anunits eyin dnum. Isk gortsi annuner@ turqeren er, el chasats sovorakan anunneri masin. arabakan ev turqakan anunner oum en petk? Serber@ ev Huyner makrecin hangist. Mez el a petq.

58800 $ v god. Programmist=rab Nado imet sobstvenni business.

Es minchev hima chem haskanum inchu en asum "lernayin gharabaghi hanrapetutyun" voch te "Artsakhi hanarapetuyun". Et 50,000 i vra Smbatn u Gurgennen (Haghpat) ? Lav a faymel en glxi phalasner@ hanel en

Karen, Arthur, Petros, Volod, Albert, Sergey...bolor@ normal anunner en. Christoeneakan, Arevmtyan (Hunakan, Keltakan, Germanakan ev ayln) ev nuynisk Partevakan (Suren, Karen, Mher,) ev hin Parskakan(Artavazd, Artashes, Anahit ev ayln). Bolor@ kareli eh. Orinak et hin Parskakan ev hin Partevakan anunner@ arden mijin darerin miayn Hayerneyin krum. Ete meki anun@ Narses er ouremn Hay er. Inch chi kareli, ev inch vor petka veracnel: Melik, Maral, Mourad etc. hazaravor -ian/yan er@. Atabekian, Demirchian, Karakhanyan, Karabekyan, Mouradyan...

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_cap∫=-1 Map & Graph: Crime: Murders (per capita) View this stat: Totals Show map full screen Country Description Definition: Total recorded intentional homicides, completed. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence. Per capita figures expressed per 1000 population. Amount 1. Colombia 0.61 per 1000 people 2. South Africa 0.49 per 1000 people 3. Jamaica 0.32 per 1000 people 4. Venezuela 0.31 per 1000 people 5. Russia 0.20 per 1000 people 6. Mexico 0.13 per 1000 people 7. Estonia 0.10 per 1000 people 8. Latvia 0.10 per 1000 people 9. Lithuania 0.10 per 1000 people 10. Belarus 0.09 per 1000 people 11. Ukraine 0.09 per 1000 people 12. Papua New Guinea 0.08 per 1000 people 13. Kyrgyzstan 0.08 per 1000 people 14. Thailand 0.07 per 1000 people 15. Moldova 0.07 per 1000 people 16. Seychelles 0.07 per 1000 people 17. Zimbabwe 0.07 per 1000 people 18. Zambia 0.07 per 1000 people 19. Costa Rica 0.06 per 1000 people 20. Poland 0.05 per 1000 people 21. Georgia 0.05 per 1000 people 22. Uruguay 0.04 per 1000 people 23. Bulgaria 0.04 per 1000 people 24. United States 0.04 per 1000 people 25. Armenia 0.04 per 1000 people

You want to know about demented Georgian appropriation of Armenian culture and history? Look at this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bagrationi Scroll down, the page has been locked after several people complained and specified that Bagrations were a branch of Armenian Bagratids. A so called Georgian historian Levan Z. Urushadze (government funded might I add) is posting all kinds of rubbish on Wikipedia. Apparently Bagratunis were Georgian rulers of Armenia lol Of course there's the whole ruckus about Tayk too. Btw if anyone can lend me a hand in the talk page, please go ahead but register first.

Vazgen jan, et harc@ petk chi qnnarkel. Menq gitenq vor vayreni gazanner en bayc tsavok srti menk kaki mej enq gtnvum ev sranq mez petk en kaghaqakan mijavayrum turqeri/jhoudneri dem, mi gutse lusavor apagayum erb vor urish khndirner chounenanq arden hnaravor klini irents asel dzez el dzer child molester prophet-inel...

Erkir@ liqna senc vochxarnerov. Ev sents anasunnerin pashton en talis... Inch Albania...ekeq Armenia.

What do you expect from a nation of mongrelized barbarians composed of arabs, pakis, kurds, turks, indians etc.? They stone people to death in public for adultery. Here's a video: http://www.americandaughter.com/arch_20050...es/beating.html Warning, it's very disturbing! Another one: http://www.iran-e-azad.org/stoning/video.html Here's another: http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/vide...deo_100kbps.wmv

Yes el em stegh knqvel.

Ancient Phillistines where Greeks.