Unregistered - M Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 How addicted to perversion must one be to come to an Armenian forum and begg for education in something which he knows never happened! Education of turks is not Armenians' buisness. We do not care about you or your herdsmen; you will or will not recognise whatever your owners will tell you. And as it is to you, it is very good that you are a turk and consider yourself 'elite'. Perhaps you will become a diplomat. Perhaps you will become a man as grandoise as Talaat was. And perhaps you will share his fate. For you herd surely will. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Celtic Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 Amen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aghavni Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 O,Маш, я тебя лав... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
filipok Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 I am both Turkish and among the elit, both of which I know you loathe but I have no prejudice against Armenians or your genocide. I am given strong proofs here in Turkey that the genocide never happened but I would want to hear your side too. Come, let's have a reasonable discussion about the genocide with proofs and concrete arguments away from nationalism and curses, persuade me and I will defend your ideas among my community. After all, I hope you are clear about your ideas and are not afraid of defending them against a "filty Turk" like me. If you prove that the genocide really took place, I repeat, that will be how I position myself in debates here. So, anyone here care to discuss and "educate" me? ← Let us assume that genocide had never happened,so how do you call what had happened in Van at the beggining of 20th century?! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aghavni Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 Let us assume that genocide had never happened,so how do you call what had happened in Van at the beggining of 20th century?! ← filipok,I'm afraid,you'll never get the answer,as the gentleman is merely uneducated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Celtic Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 It has nothng to do with education, Aghavni jan. Being a turk is more of an unfortunate and sorrowful destiny. And it is not for us to change what God himself has designed in this particular, rather awkward, way. It is, though, up to us and up to us alone to pursue justice at all cost. And so we will up until the day when the last turk leaves our Highland forever. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voter Posted June 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 Hello again. Now, never mind the army, only the insurgent volunteers would be enough to stop you from invading Turkish soil. I am a Turk, though not filthy, and I am really curious about your flag on Mt. Ararat. Then I have just broken a record with my second post. There were no Nazi Turkeys in the history. By Mustafa Jemal, if you mean Atatürk, he was not the "grandson of Youngturkish leader of Nazi Turkey" and he, I am afraid, never said such words. Even though I am not an asshole or moth, I should concede that my first post was a bit harsh, maybe I was in a wrong mood. It writes "hope to see Turks here." under the title of this thread and so I thought I could express my own opinions. I am both Turkish and among the elit, both of which you loathe but I have no prejudice against Armenians or your genocide. Come, let's have a reasonable discussion about the genocide with proofs and concrete arguments away from nationalism and curses, persuade me and I will defend your ideas among my community. After all, I hope you are clear about your ideas and are not afraid of defending them against a "filty Turk" like me. If you prove that the genocide really took place, I repeat, that will be how I position myself in debates here. So, anyone here care to discuss and "educate" me? ← Noone of Turks will speak about Azeri lands, than about turkey. Turks know very well that there is no Azeri lands, sowhy you couldn't be turk and a typical azerbaran. There couldn't be discussions with anybody about do the Genocide happened or not, the facts of deportation of own citizens organized from Nazi Turks, called Young Turks, are everywhere in any Arxive of any land... And Mustafa Jamal was one of the leaders of Young Turks. You don'T even know what was going on in 1905-1918 in Turkey... The question of topic is about future - "What if turks agree" and hope to see Turks here like Kakomeister and not azeri-undercovers... Воняет азербарашкой за версту, ненадо на себя шкуру волка натягивать... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tenente Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Hello again, I hope you are not tired of me. Being a turk is more of an unfortunate and sorrowful destiny. Now, it is easy for me to say that being an Armenian worse because you have to cry to the whole world all the time about a lie you claim genocide and dream about what will never going to happen. But I will not do it. I have just wanted to discuss scientifically about the genocide and being cursed at was the typical Armenian response I had expected. Another was somebody saying it has already been proved or there are proofs everywhere on Internet. There also proofs against the genocide on Internet if you are not aware of it. Sometimes confronting the other side is hard, especially if you are extremely sure about your position but convincing people like me, the public opinion before the official, is the only way you can have the Turkish government acknowledge the genocide which connects us to the title of this thread. In turn, you should be ready to concede yourself if you find out you are wrong. The question of topic is about future - "What if turks agree" and hope to see Turks here like Kakomeister and not azeri-undercovers... You should be thankful to me I am saving you from being a community in which everyone has the same idea and having fruitless conversations. If everyone thinks the same thing, no one is thinking enough, eh?(Oscar Wilde) Now, frankly I do not know much about Azeri issues and that is anyway not the issue I would like to discuss. You can be right about Karabakh or whatever problem you have with them, or you might be wrong, I do not know. Let us assume that genocide had never happened,so how do you call what had happened in Van at the beggining of 20th century?! Good. That is what is going to get us started at the main subject. Now, let's talk about 1915. To my knowledge, Russians armed the Armenian civilians, who were already causing riots in recent decades, and created an unrest in eastern provinces of Anatolia. Armenian mobs cut the supply lines of the Ottoman army who was already in a bad condition with the Russian and attacked unarmed Muslim villages(Turkish, Kurdish or etc.)burning them down and not even sparing the infants. All minorities in the Ottoman empire had certain rights. For example, they could not go into churches. The Turkish officials tried to identify the criminals and seperate them from the innocent. Was that easy at that time? No. The Armenian civilians, even if themselves did not attack Turkish, hid those who did. All churches and other supposedly sacred places were transformed into arsenals. Therefore, the Ottomans could not tell the guilty from the relatively few innocent. Now, what would the Ottomans have done if they had wanted to kill them all(genocide)? They would have spared a regiment to the Armenian areas and instantly shot down everybody. What they did was different, they deported them, spared them escorts when the army was already stretched too thin with the Russians still attacking. If the Armenians had not attacked people behind the front in wartime which was considered treachery at the time, they would not have been deported. That is how the troubles begin. Do we agree so far? If we do, I will move on. Cursing everything a nation holds sacred is easy, guys. The flag, the government, history, army, national hero, being Atatürk. Do that if you want, I will not be surprised, but what I want is somebody to convince me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aghavni Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 So,having said,what you wished to say,just from the beginning,won't you get out? I'll tell you,why you call the genocide of The Armenians a lie.Because,you're so deeply involved in the crime your ancestors committed,that you prefer to neglect it at all. And what if the whole world understands and admits it as a crime? What then will happen to your national "humanity" and how the world will accept everything,connected with Turkey and turkish? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tenente Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 I haven't said what I had wanted to say. In fact, I have nothing particular to say; I know I am repeating myself but what I want is a discussion at whose end one of us will realize things we did not consider before. It is interesting, though, that you want me to get out, does it hurt to hear a different opinion than yours? This is the core of the democracy. You speculate about why I say there was no genocide. The genocide, 1915, seems as far to me as Roman Empire or Troy War. It is history to me. You sort of claim I am involved with my ancestors who performed a genocide at 1915. What exactly do you mean, am I getting out of my house at night and shooting Armenians in the street? Why I believe there was no genocide is that I am offered lots of powerful evidence here in Turkey but I also want to hear your arguments. What if the whole world says it is genocide? Well, then if there is really a genocide, they would be right; if there is not, they will be wrong. The whole world also said once that Earth was flat. How the world accepts Turkey will not change as how they accepted Germany did not change. I hope you are aware that no state accepts the genocide because they like you or because they are so interested in history; states cannot be friends, they can merely be partners. When a state's interests then lie with Turkey, they will start to deny the genocide. You cannot achieve anything by third party countries, they are not interested but they may take the advantage. This is a problem Armenia and Turkey should solve on their own because we cannot go on hating each other for generations. I am ready continue the historical track of the event (my previous post) if you indicate that we are thinking the same thing so far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Celtic Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 tenente - there is no point in talking history. Regardless of whether there was a genocide or not, much of Armenia is now occupied by Turkey and we will have our country back as it should be, by all possible means, that is. The question is whether the Turkish government can be sensible enough to change the whole ethos of our relations by tackling mutual hatred at its root - in a way other than trying to destroy the entire Armenian nation. answer to this here: http://forum.hayastan.com/index.php?showto...indpost&p=46711 We might have a more fruitful discussion than talking about something which is not directly relevant for you anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voter Posted September 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 A film about real face of kemalizm made by mustafa kemal known as Ataturk, there is also a german translation by ARTE, I could strongly advice any turkish readers of our forum to find a way to look that film 21.09.2005 | 05.05 | TV5 Mustapha Kemal Atatürk: naissance d'une république Porträt A l'heure où la Turquie frappe à la porte de l'Union européenne, au nom notamment de ses critères de laïcité et de modernité étatique, il est pertinent de revenir sur l'itinéraire personnel et politique du fondateur de la République turque, Mustapha Kemal. Une figure prestigieuse qui a largement dépassé les frontières turques, reconnue par le monde occidental, qui voyait en lui une référence pour les pays de culture musulmane, sommés de se moderniser. Homme de guerre, violent et passionné, il va, auréolé de ses victoires militaires, déclencher une révolution, mettre fin au sultanat, abolir le califat et retailler à sa mesure l'empire ottoman agonisant. La Turquie est la première nation musulmane à adopter la République, en 1923. F 2005 Regie: Séverine Labat [sender: TV5] [beginn: 05.05] [Dauer: 55 Min.] [Ende: 06.00] [sV: 73-325-860] Quote Link to post Share on other sites
turk82 Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Barev Dzez Voter jan İf you are looking for a Turkish opinion about the acceptance of genocide then let me tell you something.The Turkish government will never accept the genocide.İf the government accept the genocide ( which is impossible ) then the Turkish Armed Forces will get rid of the government. Maybe the Kocharian government should stop supporting the PKK,get the troops back from Karabakh and stop demanding extra land from neighbours. Armenia could be a very nice country if the Armenians get rid of kocharian and elect a clever president. ts'tesutyun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voter Posted September 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Barev Dzez Voter jan İf you are looking for a Turkish opinion about the acceptance of genocide then let me tell you something.The Turkish government will never accept the genocide.İf the government accept the genocide ( which is impossible ) then the Turkish Armed Forces will get rid of the government. Maybe the Kocharian government should stop supporting the PKK,get the troops back from Karabakh and stop demanding extra land from neighbours. Armenia could be a very nice country if the Armenians get rid of kocharian and elect a clever president. ts'tesutyun Only Turkisch goverment have a probelm with acceptance of the genocide. And it is a problem between him and all other world including US,Isreael and even Pakistan. Everybody even turks themself know, what is the truth. So it is unimportant when the truth will loudly accepted by turks, moreover whom supports Armenian goverment and where he keeps his troops play absolutly no role... Conserning the Turkish Armed Forces - as I always said and saying the process of reducing their power in Turkey is in action and Europ will do all what it can, to complete extermination of millitary regime, build by Ataturk, like they did in Greece some time ago, before takeing Greece into European Union... The fairy tails about Armenia as a very nice country for accupation by azeris, you could tell your frinds in azverjobaranski SSR, it has nothing to do with Turkey and acceptance of genocide at all... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ivan0008 Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 On September 25 and 26, three Turkish universities Bilgi, Sabanci and Bocazi, hosted a historic conference on the fate of the Armenians in the Ottoman Empire. This was the first time that the subject has been discussed in Turkey in such a public, high-profile, scholarly setting. Papers were presented by 44 scholars who are Turkish citizens; more than 300 observers from the universities, government, and the media were also in attendance. Twice opponents of the conference had forced its postponement, but they could not achieve its cancellation. The major Turkish newspapers devoted much of their issues to the conference, both the scholarly proceedings and the present-day controversy surrounding the issue of the Armenian Genocide. An event that occurred 90 years ago continues to have major consequences for Turkish politics and society today, with a direct impact on the negotiations set to begin this month on Turkey's possible admission to the European Union. Taner Akc am of the University of Minnesota (USA) Department of History is one of the major organizers of the conference and an internationally-recognized expert on the history of the late Ottoman Empre and the Armenian Genocide. Prof. Akcam will share his impressions of the conference and the major issues confronting Turkey today. Sponsored by the: Arsham and Charlotte Ohanessian Chair in the College of Liberal Arts Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies Department of History Center for German and European Studies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
turk82 Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 Only Turkisch goverment have a probelm with acceptance of the genocide. And it is a problem between him and all other world including US,Isreael and even Pakistan. Everybody even turks themself know, what is the truth. So it is unimportant when the truth will loudly accepted by turks, moreover whom supports Armenian goverment and where he keeps his troops play absolutly no role... Conserning the Turkish Armed Forces - as I always said and saying the process of reducing their power in Turkey is in action and Europ will do all what it can, to complete extermination of millitary regime, build by Ataturk, like they did in Greece some time ago, before takeing Greece into European Union... The fairy tails about Armenia as a very nice country for accupation by azeris, you could tell your frinds in azverjobaranski SSR, it has nothing to do with Turkey and acceptance of genocide at all... Only Turkish goverment? Do you really think that with an acceptance of your so-called genocide in some countries the whole world is going to accept it? First of all try to explain to Mr.Bush.I have read ANCA letters and I know how ANCA works for it but the WhiteHouse will never accept/recognize it. Americans are not going to change their foreign policy on Turkey just for a so-called genocide.You say its a problem between Turkey and US,ISRAEL even Pakistan.Right? Let me tell you something...When Armenians tried to start so-called genocide propoganda for acceptance in Israel do you know what Mr.Sharon said? He said tell me something meaningfull and learn the meaning of a word genocide. Turks know whats the truth? Turks believe that some Armenians were deported and some of them were hanged because the local armenians were attacking to the Ottoman troops and helping the Russian soldiers. Well,during the war the traitorss get hanged ? Isnt it right? When it comes to reduce the power of Turkish Armed Forces...its impossible because TAF protects the country not the government....İf goverment tries to reduce the power of TAF then the same things will happen like in 1980... European Union? .. Right know only Erdogan goverment wants to get in the EU and we will get rid of them in 2007 elections...dont forget that we have a democracy.....we choose our leaders...we dont import them like you.... One thing...you armenians dont understand that Azeris,Kazakhs,Turkmens.Uzbeks and Kyrgzs are all Turks...We see them as a brother and I can make you sure that this time the Turkish Armed Forces wont let you guys to fool around in Azeri lands like Karabakh. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voter Posted October 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 You only onfirm with examples, what I said "Genocide is a problem for Turkey and the all other world, who receive former CITIZENS OF TURKEY native Armenians, after Turkey turned them out of their houses and homes" There is no problem for explaining Bush or Sharon WHY armenians lost their rights, lifes, homes. If you think that turks believe - Armenian CHILDEREN, WOMEN and OLD MEN were deported and some of them were hanged because the local armenians were attacking to the Ottoman troops and helping the Russian soldiers, then you never spoke about it with turks and moreover are a one of them. Turkish Armed Forces wanting 70 years show it such, that all the country supports them and they were only supported during all that period from Europe&US as a possible ally against Russia, thatwhy there was no democracy in turkey. Since last elections, when Erdogan won, it make clear no US moreover Europe interested to have millitary Turkey and there will not be a millitary Turkey also after election 2007. May be there will be another goverment, who will not want EU membership, but main thing ist, the Militry Kemalistik Turkey is already History... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Archimed Posted October 23, 2005 Report Share Posted October 23, 2005 LOL, You turks belive that you can conquer everything ----- NOT TRUE... In Toronto, Where i go to school i know 5 turks, and when they found out that i am Armenia they shitted in their pants... I say BOO they go like scared as hell. I make you guys soo stupid in front of whole school! I even sometimes bully.. oh turks are 3 guys and 2 girls. You turks will be finished in the next decade! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ozzyoi Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 (edited) Hi, Firstly to Rev. Justice, With respect to your list of 'well thought out' criterias to ensure a long-lasting peace between Turkey & Armenia for the present and the future.........wasn't it this kind of romantic idealistic absurdity that got you believing the Armenians could commit treason, rebel and revolt and get away with it that got you into this mess to begin with? I don't think anything that even remotely crawls near the 'once again romantic' thought process that land concessions, monetary compensations etc are to become reality is ludicrous. Maybe in the land of the fairygodmother, cinderella and shrek it may just stand a chance! Acceptance of a genocide is suicide, and the rules of the game are such that (in the world we live in) it makes it unthinkable for any nation to admit such a crime. And dont cite Nazi Germany, the world is a very different place today...let's keep it real! A call out to all the 'brethren of idiocy' be it Turks or Armo's.The REALISTIC approach would be to seek an acceptance and/or apology of a moralistic type to allow closure so 'life' can flourish once more. It must be true, from the heart and more importantly the mutual position and understanding of the two nations. All this moronic talk of 'we will fight, we will get back, fancy an Armenian flag and a cuppa on Mt Ararat, blah blah blah blah blah. Please, what next.........dodge bullets like keanu Reaves in Matrix? Archimed...grow up little boy...for every Turk that has shit his pants from an Armenian there's a story of the reverse...even if you don't want to believe it to be so. At the end of the day, it is as relevant as why do monkeys eat the parasites off their scalps. Edited November 25, 2005 by ozzyoi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phrygian Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 I feel sorry for Armenians that discuss such issues with turks on an equal footing. Quit giving them a verbal head, they've certainly not deserved it. They corrupt everything they get involved in. As for their police state, it's rotting from within. Give it some time before it disintegrates. Moshe wont save their ass this time. Btw, Artsakh sure as hell wasn't a "romantic idealist absurdity", I think the word you were looking for was reality. Turks are a sick people, we merely want to help and cure them. That's it, that's all. Here's a look at their twisted, troubled minds: http://www.rozanehmagazine.com/NoveDec05/aazariINDEX.HTML Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ozzyoi Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 Phrygian, Your type of mentality is the reason why the Armenian Cause will never succeed with any average Turk, let alone one that is open minded to recognition such as myself. Your statements are nothing other than sweeping generalisations, which is by the way a great insight into you as a person and what you believe in. With what arrogance and audacity do you question the discussion of this topic with Turks on an equal footing?When did God appoint YOU supreme discussion judge? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black? So what if Turkey is disintegrating and rotting? How is this your business? Have you no life that you are so concerned about the internal affairs of another country? Id be more than happy to post for everyone to read of the corruption, instability, lawlessness etc etc etc in Armenia today. But no, I'm not one who believes that I can achieve peaceful neighbourly relations by airing my neighbours dirty laundry at every opportunity. I call this the epitome of stupidity in terms of trying to achieve an objective! Artsakh....I personally couldn't care about this matter. Although I am Turkish, I personally do not feel any connection with Azeris. They are a country of their own, they need to learn to stand on its own two feet. They wanted their own block of land, they can look after it themeselves. And your silly justifications of generalising Turks all under the flagship of Turanism. Turanism is no more or less romantic than the hilarious ideas that Armenians get about the 3 r's! Turanism does not represent the thinking of an entire race, merely the 'brethren of idiocy' I speak of earlier that sees no boundary between Turks or Armenians, it seems to poison all. Thankyou for your outrageously humble, welcoming and modest offer of help to cure my people. Why don't you firmly place your tail between your legs, head back over the border and help your own. Charity begins at home, worry about helping others after you get your own backyard in order. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JazzVaz Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 To ozzyoi and all who look a like. Listen, what are trying to do here? Are you trying to tell us that Genocide never took place? If yes just say so, I am gonna Ban your lousy ass once and for all. Other wise, don’t you dare to tell us how to thing or what to do. It’s not of your business! You are unwanted guest here, so behave. Dam, could you believe it? They come here and tell us how to live our lives. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ozzyoi Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 Oh if it aint the Moderator to the rescue! Yes, a sure way of silencing things we don't like to hear...ban them!!!!What a man, wow, the power!!!!I wish I could be like you Mr Moderator. Firstly, I do believe in the genocide. But if you could actually filter out the inbred hatred and your stale outlook on the issue, you'd be able to understand from my posts that I am not a denier of anything. Why don't you make your cheap threats to people like Phrygian who have the stench of hatred and anger oozing from their souls? If you wanted to use this medium for positive, peaceful, reconciliatory & honourable purposes you would have acted differently. But I'm not here to tell you how to run your forum, it's clear you know exactly what you're doing. I didn't 'think' telling Phrygian a few ideas of mine was 'telling people how to live their lives'. Sorry for assuming a forum was exactly that, a forum whereby we can talk, debate and exchange ideas. What a lovely paradox, an 'unwelcomed guest'! That's like you being a 'caring & loving jerk'. If you don't want Turks here, then change your thread title from ' The discussion about genocide, what if Turks agree, Hope to see Turks here' TO ' The discussion about genocide, what if Turks agree, Hope to see Turks here gone'. If it makes it easy, please do me the favour of banning me. I'd rather you guys be happy within your little nestled cocoon world away from the realities and/or other ways of thinking in life. Alternatively, I can be seen as a Turk who has a major common ground with most Armenians and has the potential to be a friend. If you don't care for having Turkish friends (intellectually) and prefer to remain as you are in your hatred and blindness, please ban me...Id prefer to not be here anyway Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phrygian Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 Silly turk, I don't want recogntion by turks. I could care less about what the average turk thinks. As long as there is a single turk West of the Caspian, we have a problem that needs to be dealt with. Get off your high horse and realize that you're the scourge of mankind despised by all of your temporary neighbours, just look at the the kurdish cavemen. Even your coloninal remnants in South-Eastern Europe, I'm talking about the vile shiptars, are distancing themselves from you. Understand why we refuse to discuss serious matters with your kind, as long as the blood of our ancestors has not been avenged and as long as our historic lands are under occupation there can be no compromise. You have something we Armenians want, we want something from you that you will never give up on your own. Ergo, no matter how many "open minded" turkish squatters come here the result will be the same. We Armenians have nothing to discuss with you, nothing. Stop being obsessed with us. Moreover, what does this say about you, my goat molesting turkish friend? Are you just here to be annoying? As for ROA, the problems we have in Armenia have little to do with the corruption or the overall economy. Our real problems are geo-political. In short, we are in a shitty neighborhood under f-ed up circumstances. We have a tiny landlocked country, tiny population, no natural resources, and we are surrounded by enemies big and small. We are an Occidental oasis in an Oriental cesspool. When one takes the aforementioned facts into consideration, one realizes that our fledgling republic is doing just fine. Armenia, with all her problems, is doing better than most of the former Soviet states. However, the pro-Turk jewrun media and government here would like you to believe that Armenia's end is just around the corner. Goodbye livestockphiliac. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JazzVaz Posted November 27, 2005 Report Share Posted November 27, 2005 Heh, “things we don't like to hear” you gotta be kidding me. You thing you are the first ozzyoi in this forum? Trust me, you’re not first and unfortunately not the last. And by experience it’s necessary to make you and the rest of your kind, understand that you aint gonna say anything that we haven’t already herd. Trust me on this on. Until turks recognize that their ancestors have committed a Genocide, there is nothing to be discussed. End of conversation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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